Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DB/SIL- Wills and lending money. Have had enough- AIBU?

90 replies

jacks11 · 05/10/2015 00:07

I know, another BIL/SIL thread. This will probably be long, as it let's me vent!

my df very unwisely let slip to my brother the conditions of DF&DM's will (and he has acknowledged that he was extremely foolish to have done so). Now all hell has let loose as DB and SIL are "furious".

I have said to DB that, ultimately, our parents have the right to bequeath their assets in whatever way they see fit as far as I'm concerned. He wants me to "do something about it". I think the will is up to our parents, and I can see why my parents have done things this way. My inclination is to keep out of it.

The issue here is that due to my brother's problems, some still on-going, and both his and SIL's complete inability to manage money (it burns a hole in their pocket as soon as they get it, they are always in debt etc), my parents felt it would be best that his share be put into a trust. DB could draw money from this trust for certain things which would need approval of the trustees but will not have the money "cash in hand" so to speak. We will get equal shares. My share will not be held in trust.

This was done partly because my parents want to protect DB from himself and ensure that, if nothing else, the money is used (as far as they can ensure) wisely and to his benefit. As opposed to "pissed up the wall" or spent on rubbish/short-term "luxury" indulgence, which is what undoubtedly would happen (and has happened with DB's redundancy money in the past). Also, DM says she feels that she and DF have worked hard for what they have and don't want to see it wasted.

DB has a son and a step-son who is several years older. Our parents have left a reasonable sum to both my DD and the younger DN (to be held in trust for them until they are 21 years but can be accessed earlier for specified purposes, such as education). They have also left a (smaller) sum to DBs Step-son. SIL is very angry about this, but my parents feel he could/will inherit from both sets of his own grandparents so doesn't need a 3rd inheritance. They feel they are leaving an acknowledgement that he is a part of their family by bequeathing him something. I can see both sides of this, but come down on the side that he does have 2 other sets of grandparents to inherit from. SIL is angry as she says my parents are likely to leave far more than her parents or her ex-IL's and her son will be disadvantaged. DB/SIL are also still very angry about another inheritance (my grandmother)- long story and previous thread about this. Suffice to say DB did something very horrible to DGM, he did not apologise or acknowledge what he did was wrong and as a result was cut out of her will. I was not.

DB hurled a tirade at me on the phone yesterday. I asked him to stop, he didn't so I said I wasn't willing to discuss it any further with him until he could apologise and then act in a civilised manner and hung up. He rang back and did the same, so I did the same. He has now sent me a very angry email suggesting I "put them up to it". Which is ridiculous, as our parents are not a vulnerable, frail elderly couple who could be easily pressurised or bamboozled into changing their will- they are perfectly capable people. They have done this because they feel it's the right thing to do. I have known about the will for a while, but I have had no input into their decision. He also kept ranting on about how unfair it is that I have x, y, z and he and his family don't. The disparity between us is not due to inheritance- I earn more than he does (and had to work hard to get where I am), so I don't see it as unfair. It is not my fault that he has the job (and income) he has- that's down to him (and SIL).

Then today he emailed (no apology) to say they have some financial problems and could I please lend them money! He has requested a sum I could afford to lend. However, they have still to repay money I leant them a number of years ago (they promised to pay back in instalments and have not paid back a single penny). I have asked them about it in the past, but they get evasive or "did you really want it back?" (yes, that's why we discussed how much you could afford to pay back per month) or " but then DN's would suffer as we're so skint at the moment". TBH, I have written off that loan but made a note never to lend to them under any circumstances. Apparently, our parents have also declined to lend them any more money. SIL text me to say she couldn't believe we would let them down in this way, and leave them to struggle on and leave "the boys to go without".

My AIBU is that I think this really is the last straw. I am not going to lend them money and I have had enough of DB /SIL and their drama, trouble-making, scheming and manipulation. Their financial problems are not my responsibility and I hate the attempt at guilt-tripping me into giving them money by using their boys. I have as little contact as possible, but I just think now that the only times I want to see him and his wife are at family gatherings when I don't really have a choice. They bring nothing but aggravation to my life. AIBU?

OP posts:
Topseyt · 05/10/2015 14:22

Grrrrr!! Sorry for typos. Must blame my phone.

Topseyt · 05/10/2015 14:27

Oh, and we would never ever lend BIL money. He would never repay a penny.

jacks11 · 05/10/2015 17:29

Thanks Tops

I think my brother is very like your BIL. Nothing is ever his fault and there is always someone else to blame. He happily abdicates responsibility for everything and never seems to learn from his mistakes.

He and SIL are always the hard-done by victims and don't seem to realise they are the cause for the vast majority of their woes.

For example, SIL left her job recently (claiming she was being bullied because she was asked to see occupation health due to numerous absences from work and her saying she wasn't sure if she could do her job). She applied for an access course and assumed they'd get student funding. Not that either of them check this out with the college or the body who award the funds. SIL applied for grant etc and have been turned down as her course is not eligible. Hence the demands for a loan. Of course, it is all the fault of the college for not telling her what she would be allowed to claim. Neither DB or SIL feel that they should have looked into what SIL could claim before embarking on this course.

And of course, now they have got themselves in this pickle either me or DM&DF should bail them out.

They rely on the fact that our parents don't want to see their boys suffer and so they use this to maximum advantage. More recently, DM/DF have got wise to this, and when they are claiming poverty they will help by buying DNs school uniform or shoes or by giving practical gifts (clothes/pyjamas) as well as a toy for birthday/christmas gifts, rather than giving them money. This way at least they can't complain the boys are doing without as they have no money. Although, I suppose this is still allowing them to be irresponsible with money, knowing that our parents will cough up for things like this.

OP posts:
Topseyt · 05/10/2015 18:44

Jacks, yes, horribly familiar in many respects (though BIL was divorced).

At least your parents have recognised the problem and are trying to mitigate it as much as they can.

My MIL preferred to remain in denial and would usually claim that the sun shone out of BIL's arse. The result is a forty something man totally unable to manage money or keep out of trouble.

He has to stew now, or he drags everyone else down with him.

CrapBag · 05/10/2015 22:31

Oh yes that holiday too! They invited themselves didn't they? Thank goodness that didn't happen.

Fizrim · 05/10/2015 22:49

I wouldn't lend them any more money! I do agree with Beyond, my first thought on reading your OP was that if they want to leave him money, it's not really up to them what he spends it on. I can see their concern, though.

BoyFromTheBigBadCity · 05/10/2015 23:04

I've read your other threads OP. Seriously, go nc. So not worth the agro. Don't be guilt tripped y your parents (as you were with the lift), just cut them off.

jacks11 · 05/10/2015 23:04

Fiz/Beyond

I think if it came to it and the trust could not be relied upon, they would may change their will to only leave him a small amount because they think it would be destructive to give him too much cash (unless there are dramatic changes in how he copes with/manages money). And yes, I don't think they like the thought of their hard-earned cash being wasted either. I don't see why that's wrong.

But then I guess there would be some people who would say it is unfair not to leave equal shares to both children.

I think it is very easy to say they shouldn't care what he spends it on, but knowing how he would be I think it's a lot more nuanced than that.

OP posts:
jacks11 · 05/10/2015 23:14

And making things fair and equal does not always mean you have done the right (or in DB's case potentially the safest) thing. I suppose my parents will have to sit down and work out which scenario they feel is the best way forward, the scenario which put their mind most at rest.

Either way, it is up to them and as I said, it may all be a moot point in the end as their assets may have to be used to pay for care or something.

I have decided to just quietly go as minimal contact as possible (i.e. only at family events). It goes without saying I will not be giving them any money (and it would be giving, not loaning).

OP posts:
Topseyt · 05/10/2015 23:31

No or low contact is really the best way.

BIL would still be giving us all grief now, 10 months on, if we hadn't just left him to it.

It may sound harsh, but we really can't take all his problems on. Anyone wh gets too close risks getting dragged down with him.

Baconyum · 06/10/2015 15:46

Jacks I think you mentioned earlier you're in Scotland? I'm assuming parents and brother are too?

In which case I think posters should know inheritance laws in Scotland iirc put your parents in something of a trap hence the trust idea. Iirc you can't disinherit a spouse or child fully they're always entitled to I think minimum 1/3 of the 'moveable estate' so while they may WANT to disinherit/reduce his inheritance significantly they may well have been told by a lawyer that this isn't entirely possible.

I'm in the odd position of being in line for an inheritance (assuming not spent on care) which I don't actually want!

jacks11 · 06/10/2015 21:12

Yes baconymum there are rules in Scotland which make it difficult to disinherit a child (but not a sibling or grandchild)- they are still entitled to claim a proportion of assets (but not property) even if that is not the deceased wishes as laid down in their will. Not sure of the proportion they are allowed to claim.

However, as I said this refers to cash/stocks and shares etc, but not property as far as I know.

The only way to get around this is to gift these "moveable" assets prior to your death (years I would guess, could be wrong) and leave only "un-moveable" assets in the will. Could get very complicated.

OP posts:
carabos · 06/10/2015 22:14

Take a step back. There may well be a will, but there is no inheritance until someone dies. None of us knows the future, your parents may in the end leave nothing, you or your brother may pre-decease them. It's all hypothetical right now and your bro needs to properly comprehend that. He's wasting emotional energy on something that might never happen instead of investing it in improving things for himself and his family right now.

There's something utterly repulsive about discussing inheritances until it is absolutely necessary IMO, so stop doing it.

Everstrong · 06/10/2015 22:47

I think people get confused that splitting things equally is not always the fairest thing to do.

My DM has spoken to me about inheritance (I tell her she's very morbid!!) and that I will inherit less than my DSIS.

The reasons being are that I have a much higher wage coming in and a husband who earns a decent wage too where as sis won't ever earn as much as I do.

I think that's totally fair, I don't NEED any extra money (supposing it's not all spent on care fees) and would rather that my sis got some extra as she's desperate one day to buy a home of her own instead of being in the rental trap forever.

If I leave money on my death, I want to give it to those I feel are most in need of it e.g Any grandchildren I might have who need an education, friends who have been there through thick and thin and I want to show my gratitude to. I just don't buy into the notion that we should a) all inherit b) all inherit equally because of our blood ties.

If I was your parents and your Dbro has kicked off to such a degree I'd be inclined to cut him out altogether for his grabby behaviour.

CalmYoBadSelf · 06/10/2015 23:11

I agree Everstrong, I read something recently that stressed equality is not treating everybody the same but is ensuring that everybody receives an equally good outcome

My DM is not leaving her estate equally but, luckily, we all understand her reasoning and are all of the opinion that it is her money to do whatever she wants. Your parents are entitled to do what they want with their money and your DB needs to get over that

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread