DB/SIL- Wills and lending money. Have had enough- AIBU?

[jacks11]

I know, another BIL/SIL thread. This will probably be long, as it let's me vent!

my df very unwisely let slip to my brother the conditions of DF&DM's will (and he has acknowledged that he was extremely foolish to have done so). Now all hell has let loose as DB and SIL are "furious".

I have said to DB that, ultimately, our parents have the right to bequeath their assets in whatever way they see fit as far as I'm concerned. He wants me to "do something about it". I think the will is up to our parents, and I can see why my parents have done things this way. My inclination is to keep out of it.

The issue here is that due to my brother's problems, some still on-going, and both his and SIL's complete inability to manage money (it burns a hole in their pocket as soon as they get it, they are always in debt etc), my parents felt it would be best that his share be put into a trust. DB could draw money from this trust for certain things which would need approval of the trustees but will not have the money "cash in hand" so to speak. We will get equal shares. My share will not be held in trust.

This was done partly because my parents want to protect DB from himself and ensure that, if nothing else, the money is used (as far as they can ensure) wisely and to his benefit. As opposed to "pissed up the wall" or spent on rubbish/short-term "luxury" indulgence, which is what undoubtedly would happen (and has happened with DB's redundancy money in the past). Also, DM says she feels that she and DF have worked hard for what they have and don't want to see it wasted.

DB has a son and a step-son who is several years older. Our parents have left a reasonable sum to both my DD and the younger DN (to be held in trust for them until they are 21 years but can be accessed earlier for specified purposes, such as education). They have also left a (smaller) sum to DBs Step-son. SIL is very angry about this, but my parents feel he could/will inherit from both sets of his own grandparents so doesn't need a 3rd inheritance. They feel they are leaving an acknowledgement that he is a part of their family by bequeathing him something. I can see both sides of this, but come down on the side that he does have 2 other sets of grandparents to inherit from. SIL is angry as she says my parents are likely to leave far more than her parents or her ex-IL's and her son will be disadvantaged. DB/SIL are also still very angry about another inheritance (my grandmother)- long story and previous thread about this. Suffice to say DB did something very horrible to DGM, he did not apologise or acknowledge what he did was wrong and as a result was cut out of her will. I was not.

DB hurled a tirade at me on the phone yesterday. I asked him to stop, he didn't so I said I wasn't willing to discuss it any further with him until he could apologise and then act in a civilised manner and hung up. He rang back and did the same, so I did the same. He has now sent me a very angry email suggesting I "put them up to it". Which is ridiculous, as our parents are not a vulnerable, frail elderly couple who could be easily pressurised or bamboozled into changing their will- they are perfectly capable people. They have done this because they feel it's the right thing to do. I have known about the will for a while, but I have had no input into their decision. He also kept ranting on about how unfair it is that I have x, y, z and he and his family don't. The disparity between us is not due to inheritance- I earn more than he does (and had to work hard to get where I am), so I don't see it as unfair. It is not my fault that he has the job (and income) he has- that's down to him (and SIL).

Then today he emailed (no apology) to say they have some financial problems and could I please lend them money! He has requested a sum I could afford to lend. However, they have still to repay money I leant them a number of years ago (they promised to pay back in instalments and have not paid back a single penny). I have asked them about it in the past, but they get evasive or "did you really want it back?" (yes, that's why we discussed how much you could afford to pay back per month) or " but then DN's would suffer as we're so skint at the moment". TBH, I have written off that loan but made a note never to lend to them under any circumstances. Apparently, our parents have also declined to lend them any more money. SIL text me to say she couldn't believe we would let them down in this way, and leave them to struggle on and leave "the boys to go without".

My AIBU is that I think this really is the last straw. I am not going to lend them money and I have had enough of DB /SIL and their drama, trouble-making, scheming and manipulation. Their financial problems are not my responsibility and I hate the attempt at guilt-tripping me into giving them money by using their boys. I have as little contact as possible, but I just think now that the only times I want to see him and his wife are at family gatherings when I don't really have a choice. They bring nothing but aggravation to my life. AIBU?

Realistically I doubt he'll hear anything you say unless it's "ok here's the money you want. The will is unfair. Have my share too. I have enough it's not fair I have more than you"

I certainly wouldn't be loaning giving any more money. But if I was to I think I'd want some sort of loan agreement with strict repayment terms drawn up. To include the previous loan

He needs to continue to be told no.

Lone voice of dissent here.

I think it's incredibly manipulative and controlling of your parents to leave money but put caveats on what it can be used for and get it signed off on. The fact your father "accidentally" told your brother this leads me to believe that the control of your brother is a long-standing issue - I wouldn't be surprised if he was the family scapegoat when he was a child. You've also indicated that you feel morally superior to him in many aspects of your life. :(

Fwiw I told my parents to bury themselves with their money as they tried to control me with it. I imagine they've put it in trust until my DC's are 30. Heaven forbid I spunk the money on getting the car through the mot, buying nice winter coats or a holiday for the kids. Extravagant purchases like car/clothes/holidays y'see.

Personally I think there's more to your family story than meets the eye and you're all living up to your scripted roles.

The trust arrangement sounds eminently sensible, if it is enforceable. It might actually given your brother and SIL a chance to begin to learn to manage money more sensible.

Your brother is certainly an idiot to rant at you, particularly given that he apparently wants two favours from you - to lend him money and to intercede with your parents. But even if he apologises, I absolutely agree with you that you shouldn't do either. If you lend money you won't see it again and he will be back for more. So far as your parents are concerned, the one issue for them is whether they want to tie some more strings to your nephews' inheritances to make sure they don't get pressurised by their parents to hand the money over to them.

I think it's incredibly manipulative and controlling of your parents to leave money but put caveats on what it can be used for and get it signed off on.

That's got nothing to do with the OP.

I thought the same Beyond

Mil has tried to control dh through the will, threatening to leave it all to sil or now to sil and our daughter bypassing him. Luckily he isn't particularly materialistic and we make our own way in the world but her version would involve how she cannot trust dh like she could sil.

I think your parents are right.

My uncle did this same thing. His DS was an alcoholic and put his needs above those of his DCs. Uncle left money in trust for his DGCs and nothing to his DS or DS's ex wife. He wasn't a manipulative man he just wanted his DGCs to have the benefit of what he'd worked all his life for and not have it squandered by 2 feckless adults who always put their own wants above the needs of their DCs.

The trustees are a family friend and uncle's DD, who inherited her share with no conditions.

There was no scape-goating of my cousin. He was lovely in many ways but weak and he married a woman who was cut from the same cloth as he was. As it happened my cousin drank himself to death a year after my uncle died.

My cousin has made sure the DCs gain advantage of the money - university fees, driving lessons, cars and enough left for a deposit on a home in the future.

Go NC with your brother and wife and feel no guilt for the shit they have brought down upon themselves.

Would you be expected to be one of the trustees? I would refuse point blank to even consider the idea - otherwise you will have years of this behaviour to come. It will mean you cannot be NC with this horrible loser. Unless your parents think having a will like this would mean you have to be in contact, and that's another reason why they want it like this, because they realise that as soon as they are out of the picture you will not be in contact with your brother?

Please do yourself a favour and at least block his phone calls. You know you are not in the wrong here.

The lesson to be learnt is.. do not talk to your adult DCs about your Will unless it is equal for all. I just don't understand why. Unless your parents are so frustrated with how your DB is spending his money now, they are trying to shock him into getting more sensible with money.

No, it is not unfair to leave less to step grandchildren, we have some in our family and my parents were generous in their wills but did leave less to them than to their children's children. Besides which, their own grandparents are still alive and one set are very wealthy.

Don't lend him money, stand back, don't get involved, it sounds like he has no idea how to manage what he does have so why should you supply the bottomless pit?

I agree with someone above, it sounds like he'll never be happy. Don't lend him money. Reduce your contact with him.

I wouldn't lend him any money and I would refuse to engage in any discussions about the will but (if appropriate) redirect him back to your parents as it's their will and their choice.

If the trust is made a discretionary trust then there is no age limit. I'd keep far away from anything to do with the trust either.

Whether you choose to NC or not I'd certainly been creating a distance between your family and your brother's. Using your nephews in their argument is a low thing to do. It comes across as downright jealousy - not a pleasant trait.

Yanbu - your parents sound very sensible and of course you shouldn't lend them anything.

beyond has a point in that we're only hearing one side of the story, as with any post on here.

No one on here is going to say you should lend them money OP. As for the rest, tell him it's nothing to do with you and to take it up with your parents.

Are you one of the potential trustees of your brothers trust? Because you do NOT want to be.

I agree with beyond .

I think the brother is behaving like a dick with regard to the OP - no way should she be guilted into lending him any more money!

However, the idea of leaving a grown adult money in trust with someone (who?) doling it out depending on whether or not they thought he wanted it for a sensible reason - that sticks in my craw. No. Especially the bit about DM says she feels that she and DF have worked hard for what they have and don't want to see it wasted . I hate to point it out, but they won't see it. They will be dead. If they want to leave him money, then just do it - don't hedge it round with conditions and control. Who is setting the conditions for DB to access the money? OP, I would be steering well clear of this one - under no circumstances would I agree to be a trustee. Sit in judgement on my brother's life? No thanks.

beyond makes an interesting point.

however, given that they haven't repaid the last loan, i wouldn't lend them money unless you're willing to give it.

If I knew my child would just "piss it up the wall" I'd want to do the same as ops parents. Either that or I'd want to bypass them and give my hard earned money to people who would appreciate it.
Given the grief already caused, and him being horrible to the grandmother over her will, that would be my inclination anyway. I actually think the ops parents are being incredibly fair to include db, even with the caveats.

I also think op should stay out of it, after pointing out that due to his behaviour he didn't inherit anything from his gm, and the way he is going now he could be in danger of losing out again, if he doesn't start behaving in a reasonable manner.
And definitely don't loan anymore money. I'd be saying "you have a cheek asking, when you haven't even attempted to pay back the last lot"
Sometimes tough love is needed.

YANBU and nor are your parents, they can leave their money in whatever way they choose.

I agree about not lending money to him. Was it your brother who, you said in an earlier post, stole from your GrandMother? If he is that person, he has no morals and I believe your parents are absolutely right in protecting the grandchildren from him and his wife.

I think it's incredibly manipulative and controlling of your parents to leave money but put caveats on what it can be used for and get it signed off on

I disagree.

Your (the royal 'your') windfall is the result of someone elses work for a lifetime.

I would want our dc to use an inheritance lump sum for something to further their lives tbh - education, a house, even travel. Not to be gradually frittered on winter coats and car MOT's (which presumably you would have found money to pay for without an inheritance?).

If I had an irresponsible adult child I would certainly put restrictions on my will. I hope I never have to. A windfall can be ruinous for some people.

I think you sound lovely, and sensible. Don't lend them any money.

I would send an email back stating that the money loaned previously needs to be repaid before any further loans can be arranged as your family can't afford to lose money in this way as it is unfair on your dd

I think it's incredibly manipulative and controlling of your parents to leave money but put caveats on what it can be used for and get it signed off on

It sounds to me like they would ideally not leave him any money at all, because they don't think he would appreciate it, but they love him and don't actually want to disinherit him, so they tried to find a way to provide for him in the way that they would like to if they were alive - i.e. giving money for specific things which would be of long-term benefit rather than tiding them over every time their wages run out before the end of the month.

I can see the value to that line of thinking, and the motivation seems sound, but telling the brother that was their plan (albeit a monumentally bad idea, clearly) should have been a wake-up call for him, either to ditch his parents if he thinks it is truly manipulative, or to think a bit more carefully about his spending habits if he can see their point, not a catalyst to get at the OP and demand money from her by way of compensation for having his feelings hurt by his parents.

Oh please. We create our own past present and future. If the brother became the black sheep of the family it will be because of his own actions. He has had plenty of opportunity from the sound of it to show himself as a changed man and instead continues to act like a feckless teenager, hoping the family will continue to bail him out.

My sister inherited £5000 and put it on a horse. I put it in an ISA. au think you can probably guess right now who has saving and who is struggling financially and having to accept continual handouts. Some people are just really terrible with money and need saving from themselves.