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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's fucking unfair for people like me who bust our arses off to buy a property...

250 replies

DamnCrazyWorld · 03/10/2015 02:42

And all the while people who have practically the same type/ size of house and who are on a similar income as me in the same area are paying just a quarter of what I paid for because its a council property bought through the Right to Buy Scheme.

Should I have just got myself onto benefits and into a council property to get onto the property ladder?

It's madness. It really is.

OP posts:
LeaveMyWingsBehindMe · 04/10/2015 06:04

Because she was being a hypocrite and she was being unnecessarily vicious towards the OP, making all sorts of assumptions about her, implying she was spoilt (references to living off mummy and daddy) with absolutely nothing to back it up, called her jealous and bitter and generally being ranty and spiteful.

Because you CHOOSE to not add yourself to the list you sit here bitter of others that did.

Oh, if only it were that simple. Putting yourself on the list is the easy bit. Of course you don't have to be on benefits or considered in any way 'vulnerable' or 'in need'' to get social housing, at least not in theory, but these days just try getting subsidised social housing when you have a job, a partner and no children.

People are not rewarded with council housing for doing everything in life in the right order, or for taking personal responsibility for planning their family sensibly and according to their ability to financially support their own children. Quite the opposite.

People in glass houses and all that.

AccidentalNameChange · 04/10/2015 06:12

The Right Order?

Is it a religious thing?

LeaveMyWingsBehindMe · 04/10/2015 06:27

She's saying NO IT'S NOT UNFAIR in answer to the question about council tenants paying 1/4 of the market value of their house under the Right To Buy Scheme.

Quite honestly I don't see my response as being vicious in the least. I am disagreeing with her argument and pointing out why. It's not my problem to take into account whether or not she has had the 'traumatic life event' as you put it, of having a baby very young with no means to house or support it. That doesn't make her some delicate flower who can't be disagreed with, especially not if her argument to the OP makes absolutely no sense in light of her personal circumstances.

People buying their council houses are part of the reason why people like her and Vatican have to go into hostels. What part of that is she not understanding?

LeaveMyWingsBehindMe · 04/10/2015 06:28

No, not a religious thing, just a personal responsibility thing. Although these days you could be forgiven for thinking that is a religion, it seems to be treated with similar suspicion and contempt by some people.

Sansoora · 04/10/2015 06:57

People who bought under the right to by schemes years ago had probably paid huge amounts of money in rent prior to buying. They may have paid for the house a few times over by the time the eventually bought it.

Onedirectionarestillloved · 04/10/2015 07:25

Can I ask a question if someone buys their council house, what discount do they get?
How long do they have to have been living there?

Also whether someone owns or rents a house. They still need a house to live in. If they receive a large discount then presumably they wouldn't have been able to go ahead and buy a private property as that would be more expensive.

I think the trouble is you have a private free market commodity but housing is a social need which therefore needs government intervention.

It's rather like allowing all education to be market ruled.
Think of the chips that would cause.

Onedirectionarestillloved · 04/10/2015 07:27

Chips=chaos.

goblinhat · 04/10/2015 07:40

Can I ask why wouldn't you buy your council house if you had that great opportunity?

If you had a huge discount, it was the only opportunity you had to get on the housing ladder, and it would benefit your family?

I am not suggesting that the scheme is sensible overall, but for individual families then it is good.

I bought my council house 8 years ago.
After the purchase my mortgage payments were lower than my rent.
Criteria were- tenants for at least 5 years, then a 30% discount on market rate. Thereafter breakpoints depending on how long you have rented up to a maximum of 80% discount.
Depends on the authority of course.

Badders123 · 04/10/2015 07:51

My mum got the max discount as she has lived there since 1969.
She also actually benefited from the govt increasing the discount from August 1st last year.
No idea the qualifying period was only 5 years.
She cannot rent it out, of sell for 5 years (not that she ever would)
A friend of my brothers got on the housing ladder in The 80s when this policy came out. He bought his grandmother's large 3 bed semi for £20k.
You can sell them back to the local authority if you wish.

goblinhat · 04/10/2015 07:54

You can sell them back to the local authority if you wish - depends on the authority- ours don't buy back.

My mother bought her 2 bedroomed semi for £11K.

Badders123 · 04/10/2015 08:11

I think ours do. In fact if you decide to sell I think you have to give the local authority first refusal?
£11k? Blimey. As you say....who wouldn't?
I dont agree with rtb but if you could buy a house for that and your mortgage would be less than your rent....it's a no brainer really.
My mum bought hers in Jan for £30k (3 bed terrace)

goblinhat · 04/10/2015 08:15

I bought my home 8 years ago for 50K. Sold it 7 years later for £110K. Lovely £60K profit which has gone to buy a much bigger home in a naice area.

lighteningirl · 04/10/2015 08:17

My dsis bought hers when her dh moved in broke up had to split assets now has tiny cramped flat on interest only about to retire and has no boiler as she can't afford to replace it. It was the worst decision she made secure safe housing with all repairs taken care off lost forever. She only had minimum discount has always worked really regrets it.

x2boys · 04/10/2015 08:42

The thing is social housing is not in limited supply everywhere in the country in london and the south yes, but i got my council house after just nine months of being on the list here in the northwest and could have had somewhere much sooner if i had taken the first one offered and we werwe not priorty in fact we were banded in the least priority.

Lemonfizzypop · 04/10/2015 08:47

I hate RTB but you can't blame people for taking the opportunity, that's why it's such a clever scheme. I really do think council housing will eventually diminish to the point of not existing, God knows what will happen then with private rents spiralling out of control.

stateoftheart · 04/10/2015 08:52

Whilst you are working your arse off to pay your morgage you have also been gaining equity, yes?

I have been working my arse off for 10yrs to pay the rent on my ch. minimum waged jobs so the low rent was relative to my low income, so I haven't been laughing all the way to the bank.

This house is old, maybe 60yrs old?!? So by now the council will be making a profit on my rent. Why don't they use that profit to invest in new housing? It's not my fault they don't.

Meanwhile after paying my rent for 10yrs I have no option of saving for a deposit as life is difficult to manage on mw.

I am now at a point where I may be able to get a mortgage through rtb. Giving me the opportunity to move out of this shit hole estate after 3yrs. Of course I will take it. Like I soad I have paid my rent for 10 yrs, similar to building up equity. I don't think this is massively unfair.

People I know who bought a house 10 years ago have seen the value double, allowing them to move on, whilst paying a relatively small mortgage. I think I should have this opportunity as well. I am hard working too. Very hardworking, just not in a very profitable career

futureme · 04/10/2015 08:53

That difference probably accounts for a lot of the angst on these threads x2boys.

I'm in the south but not surrey or anywhere posh. Council housing is fairly hard to get now but wasn't as hard 20 years or so ago. So the people currently in the houses around me are mainly doing quite well. It certainly isn't something most people could get now.

Toughasoldboots · 04/10/2015 08:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chocolatespiders · 04/10/2015 08:58

I live in a housing association house and as a single mum work full time. I have paid 70,000 in rent over 12 years and if the new bill goes through I will be offered huge discount on my house to buy it. I guess I could think the discount is what I have already paid in rent.
I don't agree with right to buy so I am not sure if the my voice in my head will let me do it or if indeed as a single mum I would get a mortgage. But I would love to get on the housing ladder and this would be the only way.

LeaveMyWingsBehindMe · 04/10/2015 09:22

I am not suggesting that the scheme is sensible overall, but for individual families then it is good.

I bought my council house 8 years ago
After the purchase my mortgage payments were lower than my rent.

You are right, who wouldn't buy their council house, given the chance? And if your mortgage was lower than your already subsidised council rent was than that just shows what a massive discount on the market value of your house would have been had you been a private buyer buying it from a private seller. Except that the private seller would have had to pay for all the repairs and maintenance and refurbishment in the time that they had owned it, whereas if you needed a new boiler or a new garden fence you just picked up the phone and you got one.

And now you are free to sell your house and keep all the difference between your mortgage and the current sale price/value for yourself. Yep, you'd be mad not to. Free money. Meanwhile there is a serious shortage of social and low cost housing.

A friend of my brothers got on the housing ladder in The 80s when this policy came out. He bought his grandmother's large 3 bed semi for £20k.

Yes I know someone who did exactly that as well. I'm not sure about how the finer points of that arrangement worked, but I think it was an appalling idea to allow anyone other than the tenant to buy it. For example what happened when the relative in question died and all of the benefits of that arrangement went to the one grandchild who bought the house at huge discount? Also what if the relative was still technically penniless and had to go into a care home for several at tax payers expense? If the relative had bought the house themselves there would have been a forced sale to pay for that care, but in this scenario the state would have paid for care while the grandchild merrily reaped the benefits of renting out that house, or by selling it at massive profit. How is that right?

I actually think the this government (and the last Labour government) would quite like to get away from the old fashioned notion of council estates and council housing and have them all in the private sector because ultimately it's much, much cheaper and simpler to pay a huge housing benefits bill that goes to private landlords and housing associations than it is to run a wholesale council housing system with all the enormous associated costs.

But the flaw is that lots of private landlords either won't or can't take certain categories of tenant due to the high risks and high costs involved, or are prevented from doing so by the conditions of their mortgage.

Council houses are allocated according to 'need' but they are not taken away according to lack of need. So once you have that council tenancy you have it for life even if your circumstances change and you can well afford to buy or rent in the private sector.

And if you get the chance to buy it at a discount and then sell it on, or rent it out for profit and move somewhere else, then it's a no brainer, isn't it?

Except that every time someone does that it's one less house in the social housing system that can house the sort of tenant private landlords won't / can't touch.

As for the council buying back the property, what on earth would be the point of that madness, and how can they justify the cost? Surely if they need more houses it would be cheaper for them to build from scratch than to sell off their assets for tuppence, then buy them back again 5 years later for full market value? Confused

The whole thing is a poorly thought out joke.

LeaveMyWingsBehindMe · 04/10/2015 09:28

I live in a housing association house and as a single mum work full time. I have paid 70,000 in rent over 12 years and if the new bill goes through I will be offered huge discount on my house to buy it. I guess I could think the discount is what I have already paid in rent.

Have you received any housing benefit that has gone towards that rent in the last 12 years? And why do you think that you should have your rent paid back to you in the form of a RTB discount? I'm not sure I follow the logic that because you are now going to buy the house you should have been allowed to have lived in it free for the previous 12 years. Especially not if HB was involved. Confused

MrsWhirling · 04/10/2015 09:28

I grew up in a council property with my parents - they have never received any kind of benefits, but could not afford to buy a home. After 17-years they were able to buy it with a discount under the scheme. It is still there home. As long as it is not abusived, I think it is a wonderful scheme.

goblinhat · 04/10/2015 09:39

Council houses are allocated according to 'need' but they are not taken away according to lack of need

They are not allocated according to need.

Anyone can apply for a council house.

Priority is given to some people- homeless for instance- but you can have ten million in the bank and still be allocated a council house.

x2boys · 04/10/2015 09:41

Near me you have to be working to be considered for some H/A homes so the the perception that social housing is just for those on benefits is nonsense and to dispel a few myths my house has repairs done in a timely fashion urgent within the day non urgent within a few days,my windows are all double glazed heating system is modern , when we got the house it was undecorated no flooring etc we did get £250 decorating vouchers off the council [ i wasent expecting that] most people seem to have at least one person working and most people seem to want to keep there homes and gardens nice.

goblinhat · 04/10/2015 09:44

When I lived in my council house there were very few families that were not working- apart from the elderly retired.