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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it's fucking unfair for people like me who bust our arses off to buy a property...

250 replies

DamnCrazyWorld · 03/10/2015 02:42

And all the while people who have practically the same type/ size of house and who are on a similar income as me in the same area are paying just a quarter of what I paid for because its a council property bought through the Right to Buy Scheme.

Should I have just got myself onto benefits and into a council property to get onto the property ladder?

It's madness. It really is.

OP posts:
rainbowstardrops · 03/10/2015 09:29

Not only is RTB eroding the availability of much needed social housing but also the fact that once you have a council house, you get to keep it regardless of any change in your financial situation! It should be on a needs basis.
Years ago my DB and his then girlfriend (now DW) looked to privately rent but it was too expensive as they were very young and didn't have good jobs.
They then decided to have a baby instead Hmm and got given a council flat and then a council house which they still rent to this day. This was about 25 years ago.
They live in the same road as I do but DH and I bought our house and struggle like crazy to pay the mortgage etc as we still have a fairly young family.
DB, DW and DN all have good full time jobs and have nice cars and foreign holidays every year - if only!!!
So basically, they pay a fraction in rent compared to our mortgage but earn collectively more than us but are still 'entitled' to social housing. It seems madness to me.
Rant over Grin

mrstweefromtweesville · 03/10/2015 09:31

I 'really disagree' with people paying subsidised rent if they are working.
I 'really disagree' with people paying rent for years and having nothing to show for it.
Buying your rented house makes sense, particularly if your mortgage is also subsidised.

pinkfrocks · 03/10/2015 09:33

Where I live- in a village- many people in social housing could afford to either rent privately, or even buy. Their circumstances have changed since they were eligible for social housing maybe 30 years ago.
In many cases they are not prepared to rent privately, or take on the responsibility of buying at the market rate, because it's more costly, even though my adult children are busting a gut to pay private rents because there is no way they'd get social housing.

So they are in a win-win situation. They pay a subsidised rent for years , regardless of their income, then buy at a low figure, then sell at the market value some years later and are quids in. That is not fair when other people have subsidised them all those years.

Efferlunt · 03/10/2015 09:36

Rtb is an awful idea. Throwing tax payers money away in the hope it will create more Tory voters. However if I was one of the people who was in a position to buy my council house and benefit my family of course I would do it so I don't feel badly towards anyone who has.

pinkfrocks · 03/10/2015 09:38

I'm 100% with you rainbow. Social housing rents ought to be based on income. There is no way people should use the system in this way when it really is a safety net for some people. It should no longer be social housing 'for life' because this takes homes away from people who really need them and doesn't instil any sense of personal responsibility - it just makes dependency on the state a permanent way of life.

Badders123 · 03/10/2015 09:38

I'm not sure how you think my parents were subsidised pink.
They paid rent since 1969.
I haven't done the Sums exactly, but they have paid in the region of £180k in rent in that time.

Badders123 · 03/10/2015 09:39

Well it hasn't worked on my mum...labour all The way :)

Seriouslyffs · 03/10/2015 09:39

VaticanFlowers
Your situation is sadly utterly relevant to the goady OP.

myotherusernameisbetter · 03/10/2015 09:42

I do disagree with RTB on principle, but it should be noted that a lot of the original houses bought when it first started were in a pretty poor state. I know because I was brought up in them. Poor quality rusting metal window frames, an open fire in the main room as the only form of heating. Expensive immersion tank for hot water, no fitted kitchen, no shower, just a cold cast iron bath that cost a fortune to fill, damp cold bedrooms, nail sick roofs etc etc etc. Some people bought them as the mortgage was lower than the rent the rent they were paying so they'd be able to borrow more to improve their living conditions. Things aren't always black and white.

myotherusernameisbetter · 03/10/2015 09:46

Badders I would add that whilst Labour was devastated in Scotland, even if we had all voted Labour the Torys would still have gotten in. So don't blame us.

AccidentalNameChange · 03/10/2015 09:46

Silly selling them off, giving them for life and allowing them to pass to children

Eedon only adult children who live with the tenant and have done for years (with no other home) at the time of death inherit a tenancy. Usually there is a clause stipulating that they can be moved to alternative, smaller, more suitable social housing at that point anyway.

You're being a little misleading.

pinkfrocks · 03/10/2015 09:47

But Badders- if they'd had to rent privately, they would have paid a heck of a lot more! The point is that social housing rents are below market value (in private sector) and the investment in the build (social houses) and upkeep of properties is paid for partly by the taxpayer. I recall years ago when social housing rents were £25 a week which was a fraction of what anyone paid privately and a fraction of a mortgage- yet the people paying that had flash cars, holidays overseas, etc etc.

Badders123 · 03/10/2015 09:48

True.
Mum has had lots of issues with the house since she bought it (I did warn her!)
I think it's a common misconception about council houses though...people seem to think they come fully furnished and with nice fitted kitchens and decent heating systems bitter laughter
Until I was 13 we had no indoor toilet. No central heating and one gas fire in the living room.
And as for getting the council to sort out problems...ha ha! Phone the. By all means but don't expect anyone to come out for at least 2 weeks. No heat or hot water in December isn't much fun.
And the work they do actually do is shoddy and done by the cheapest contractor they can find.
So...yeah. It's not all roses.
If you ever do get offered a council property expect concrete floors, wood chip on the walls, no kitchen units to speak of and rusty pipe work.

Badders123 · 03/10/2015 09:50

Its just jealousy.
My parents got a council house in the 1960s when they were more readily available.
Not their fault.
They were ideal tenants for over 40 years.
The op needs to grow up and direct her ire towards those that have caused this issues, not those just trying to live their lives.

Toughasoldboots · 03/10/2015 09:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badders123 · 03/10/2015 09:51

Not blaming you myOther! Labour has been decimated in Scotland. Perhaps with good reason.

pinkfrocks · 03/10/2015 09:51

myotherusername that made me smile. Up until I was 16, my parents' home had no central heating. We had an open fire. We had an immersion heater. We had a cast iron bath. This was in a house that they had scrimped and saved to buy. They are still in it now and have scrimped and saved to modernise it. I used to wake up with ice on the inside of my bedroom windows when up to when I was 16.
Before that they lived in a privately rented flat where I lived till I was three. No bathroom, tin bath in lounge, outside loo and no running hot water. Their parents lived in social housing but my parents were determined never to do the same.

pinkfrocks · 03/10/2015 09:52

Badders it's not jealousy, it's the moral principle of people being given free handouts when other people are working to pay for them.

Badders123 · 03/10/2015 09:53

I wonder if the govt will ever make landlords provide decent homes?
In Europe people rent all their lives, have secure tenancies, rights in law, decent homes....why can't we do that here?

sleepyelectricsheep · 03/10/2015 09:56

"Labour lost because they lost the Scottish vote."

Labour did NOT lose because of the Scottish vote. The Conservative majority is bigger than the Scottish seats they lost.

They lost the election for these reasons IMO:

  1. They were appalling in opposition. They let the Tories spread lies like that Labour caused the global financial crisis largely unchallenged. The idea that Labour left the economy in mess is a popular opinion despite the evidence not backing this up
  1. The media is largely owned by Murdoch / Tory and ran sucessful PR campaigns for the Tories
  1. Many life long Labour supporters (myself included) were disillusioned with Labour. We did not vote Labour last time because we felt they did not represent us anymore. Many were unhappy with the party becoming Red Tories. People voted SNP instead in Scotland but also Green / UKIP / did not vote in England & Wales.
  1. Miliband was unpopular. The media did not help this (see point 2).
lighteningirl · 03/10/2015 09:57

I am a landlord I provide my tenants with a lovely secure home bog off with your ll bashing how dare you accuse me of anything else you don't know me or my properties or my tenants

sleepyelectricsheep · 03/10/2015 09:59

" It should no longer be social housing 'for life' because this takes homes away from people who really need them"

Only if the stock is depleted by right to buy and no new housing is built.

Council housing being for life ensures healthy communities as people stay in them as their life improves. If it's only for those in need then you create ghettos.

AccidentalNameChange · 03/10/2015 10:00

I am a landlord I provide my tenants with a lovely secure home

Security of tenure light?

Badders123 · 03/10/2015 10:03

You can't pass on a tenancy btw, only if the adult lives with the parent.
Another common misconception.
I don't feel my parents ever had a handout in their lives, but we will agree to disagree on that one! :)
One thing I have noticed (I am 43 next week) is that when I was growing up the council houses were rented by families with one or both parents working ft. Like our family...both parents worked ft, as did my sister and I.
They kept the gardens nice, not fancy (no money) but lawns mowed, no rubbish in them.
Now it seems the vast majority of council houses are rented by single parents or couples who do not work and who get their rent paid through hb.
The houses are treated very badly, gardens strewn with rubbish.
It's sad really.
I'm not single parent bashing, or benefit bashing, it's just what I've noticed local to me. (And I know that anecdotes to not = data)
I know 2 women with multiple children who have wrecked their houses and then been given new ones. I must admit, although I'm glad for the children that they are in a better situation, it does make me angry.
Why should these people ever change? Why should they take responsibility for their lives when they know the council will step in and sort them out?
Very very sad.

Badders123 · 03/10/2015 10:04

I'm sure there are lots of good landlords.
There are also lots of terrible ones whose tenants are left in damp, drafty pits.
This thread isn't about YOU