to ask for your help in wording an email to my siblings?

[LaLyra]

This probably isn't the right place. And I probably should be able to compose an email by myself, but my DH is away, 3 of my 5 children have chicken pox, one of my DD's seems to think she's 23 rather than 13 and my fucking siblings are being a bloody nightmare.

I'm the youngest of four siblings. My brothers are 9 and 8 years older than me and my sister 6. Our father is dying. Apparently he has days left at most. My siblings have decided that we will be going to the funeral together and that we'll each be contributing a set amount to flowers, one set from us and one set from "the grandchildren".

When I was 7 my paternal grandparents realised how much of an abusive monster their son was, and that their DIL wasn't much better. We stayed with them on Friday night like we did every week and they spotted an iron burn on my sister. After speaking to us and everything finally coming out they went to the police, social services and our school and after lots and lots of arguments we never, ever went home.

Since then I've seen my father maybe a dozen times. Usually when he turned up at GP's looking for money for booze or drugs, or to shout at them because "his" money (child benefit and family allowance) had been stolen by them.

Last year we were told by a distant relative that he had cancer. Sister decided to visit him. This caused uproar with my brothers at the time, one of them even stopped speaking to her for several months. I told her she had to make her own decisions because we each have to live with our choices. I wouldn't be visiting as I want nothing to do with him.

Over the past months she has visited him regularly and was even planning on him coming to stay with her when he left hospital, but instead he's had to go to a hospice place for care. My brothers have softened to her decision to the point that they have both been going with her (again, imo, that's their choice).

However, they've now decided on this funeral/flowers plan. I said no and since then I've had emails/phone calls from each of them and now they are taking the "we always agreed we'd stick together" line, which is hurtful to me because we took that line against our parents. After another email today I need to put together a reply that is firm, but not too emotional (if there's any hint of emotion they'll just ignore it).

I need it to be right because if I put it well they'll get it (we've been here before and if I word things right it's like they suddenly remember I'm not a child anymore). In many ways I know I shouldn't even bother, but they're my siblings and I'm not ready to cut them off yet.

"I wanted to make my position clear to each of you as there seems to be some sort of belief amongst the three of you that my mind can, or will, be changed.

I will not be going to this funeral. I will not be contributing to flowers and you will not be including my children in any sort of tribute from grandchildren. This is not something I will be changing my mind on.

I do not appreciate the "sticking together" line being thrown at me over this. We used to say that to each other when we were promising to protect each other from them. Now it feels to me that you are allowing him to use it against me.

I support your decisions to go to the funeral because it is something the three of you clearly wish to do, just like I have supported your decision to visit him. All I ask is that you do me the same courtesy by respecting my decision not to go."

Well done OP, that was a great email to send and I'm glad you didn't soften it. Why should you when you have been telling them and they clearly haven't listened at all.

Good luck.

starks You are not the first person to say that about eldest brother. it's something that is bothering me more and more. I posted about him here before when I had concussion and he kept mithering me about 'wasting' A&E's time.

I don't think he realises how domineering he is. I know for a fact he doesn't seem able to process how things have changed. Yes, when I was 7 and he was 16 he was almost an adult (he had to be really) and I was a little kid, but now I'm an adult. I'm married, have children and am capable of making decisions and choices. He seems to forget, or that's how I always felt about it. Now I'm wondering if it's more than forgetting. I'm wondering if he just doesn't think my opinions are equal to his.

Oh LaLyra , he does seem to have adopted the dad role to you and being that your dad was a piss poor example, he's doing similar. I think you need to tell him this at a later date when it's calmed down around the funeral issue. He's an adult and needs to understand the way he's acting is getting closer and closer to railroading or bullying.

Some people have to change the past in their heads to justify their actions and choices, maybe he is one? What about your other siblings? They sound quite similar or do you think they are more like sheep and defer to him as if he's the parent?

Well done for sticking up for yourself

I agree with having some things in reserve such as the obvious "just because I was taken in at 7/8 doesn't mean that I don't have horrific memories and struggle to forgive what he did".

Even more

They don't really defer to him as such. He just tends to end up leading every situation. He's loud. He's also 6'5 and big so he's a big presence. It was my sister who first wanted to visit him and brother didn't like it, but once she'd done it he had to be the one that drove her there, that waited for her etc. Like it was his decision.

My sister is an apologist. You could do anything to her and she'll find a reason to explain it for you. So father's problems were down to the drugs and people who sell drugs are bad, but drug addicts are victims. Mother was influenced by father. She would lash out at us because it'd stop him lashing out at her - like that's a reasonable thing for a mother to do. Nobody ever has blame, everything is explainable and forgivable. I wasn't the least bit surprised by her choice tbh. She was the only one of us who had contact with our mother before she died.

Other brother is more sheep like. He's terrified that four of us will not always be a four. It's like we have to stick together to be safe. Normally he's my back up to eldest brother if its just us around, but when there's a conflict he's always on the majority side. Sometimes it feels like anything for an easy life, but other times it's just the majority. Like he's arguing with his wife over this as he wanted to take DN to the hospice and SIL said no (like mine their kids have never met him, they've never heard a good word about him all their lives...)

Eldest brother is just - sometimes he's like two people. When he's with his wife he is a completely different person, in a good way. They've been together for a very long time. She was like a big sister to me when I was a teenager and I consider her a friend as well as a SIL. He listens to her, like she could tell him the moon was made of cheese and he would carefully consider her points before rejecting the idea. He really respects her opinions and when she's there and they are laughing he's a lovely guy. Lots of funny debates and he'd give you his last meal. But when he gets an idea in his head and she's not there calming him down (she's having nothing to do with this, thinks its ludicrous that they are all trotting up and down to the hospice etc) he's so different. It used to be very rare that they didn't chat things through and end up on the same page, but it's getting more and more common. Brother is clashing with his eldest all the time and more and more SIL seems to be coming out on DN's side and it's worrying because they never used to be a couple with sides.

Brother has admitted in the past he struggled with the way I now have DH's family. Because DH's was widowed and becauseh his MIL is an amazingly wonderful lady I basically have two MIL's. Both easy to talk too, welcoming and he found that a big adjustment because since we were kids my go-to people were him and other brother. Now I have people that I see more and am closer too than him, his job as my looker-after is sort of redundant.

When I was younger it was much simpler.

Jeez sorry! I didn't realise that waffle was so long!

I'm glad to hear you're not aversed to a bit of counselling, I think a bit of a tune up sounds like a good idea at this juncture.

I'm so sorry you are going through this, nobody deserves this.

I admire your strength and resolve. You can do this!

LaLyra another one just coming on to say I admire you so much.

My DM had an appalling chidlhood, lots of abuse (all kinds) and she is also the youngest of 4. She is an apologist and people-pleaser and manipulated my childhood to pretend that we were all happy families.... making me stay with GPs, putting their needs first, even now she manipulates me (through tears, shouting and crying) into making visits and phone calls to her siblings who were totally complicit in the abuse etc. I knew growing up that she would always put her abusive violent parents ahead of her own children and she would never stand up to them. YOU are putting you and your own children first and you are resolute. You are modelling to your children that your safety and their safety comes first. That is a MAJOR MAJOR thing for them to see.

You are incredibly strong.

The loss of parents is a big milestone in people's lives. Certainly sibling relationships take a shift ime.

Sounds as if DB is struggling to adapt to new situation. He had the 'dad' role, stood in for his DF, but his siblings are grown and don't need that now. And DF is literally no longer around, the role no longer exists.

He possibly didn't have the counselling he needed at the time. If you stand firm OP he should accept the new relationship, as equal siblings in time. But not giving much weight to your views is due to birth order, imo, not that easy for him to change.

cheesy That's awful Nobody comes before my children. If you're not safe with your Mum then you are not safe anywhere - that was my constant feeling as a child and I never, ever want them to know what that feels like.

scooby He won't, but after the email I received from him that's his issue.

thank you everyone. I very much appreciate the replies. My MIL has taken the pox ridden bunch to her house to give me a break. Ds1 is working and I'm home, waiting until it's an appropriate time to order a takeaway and open a bottle of wine resisting all temptation to reply to eldest brother's email calling me selfish and spoilt.

Apparently I have no respect for my siblings, I'm ungrateful for everything they've done (which includes a list of several things they've done for me) and have forgotten the "start up" in life they gave me regarding the unfair split of our grandparents will.

I haven't heard from other brother or sister. I'm not surprised at my sister, but I am a bit about L. He and I were, I thought, the closest of the four of us. He obviously feels very strongly about the whole thing and wasn't expecting me not to fall into line.

Your brother is being a selfish bully. Why should you put yourself out for someone whose only meaning to you is pain, hurt and negative thought? Your siblings don't sound like they are going to be supportive, they are deferring to him and their own wants and needs.

Have you spoken to your DH for support?

I would just email back:

I am not responding to your attempts to guilt me. I appreciate everything you've all done for me but you have no right to use that to bully and guilt me.

I will not be forced to mourn a man who meant nothing to me but pain and fear, while I support your choice to do so it is not my choice and you should respect that.

I love you very much but I won't be abused and controlled by you as I was by him.

LaLyra

He obviously feels very strongly about the whole thing and wasn't expecting me not to fall into line

You are assuming stuff here. He is prob as mixed in his feelings about this situation as the rest of you. OR perhaps he is not that interested and it's just oldestB calling the shots.

I think maybe your DSibs are torn, probably agreeing with your views deep down but perhaps want to put on a show of forgiveness or a denial about what happened perhaps for their DCs??. Not fair of D oldest B turning nasty like he is.

I would think this will blow over quickly after the funeral, everyone wanting to put the past behind them.

Morning OP, how are you feeling today?

Did you reply to your db?

OP this is one of the most admirable threads I have read on here. Your email was fantastic and I hope they listen to you. I think perhaps your SIL will be a useful ally in this. Keep going OP, you are doing great.

It's gone downhill rather rapidly. All three have replied in a similar vein. All feel I should be there for them. A real undertone of "we suffered more than you" in everything. I replied to them all (one email addressed to them all as they'd taken to cc'ing each other into their emails) simply saying that I was sorry we were disagreeing, but that I won't apologise for my stance, nor will I change it.

Eldest brother decided to send me an email this morning outlining every time I've ever been spoilt in life and decided to announce that he feels the split of our grandparents will was bitterly unfair and this is probably why I'm so spoilt.

I'm reeling from that. Yes, on paper the split looks highly unfair, but the actual will doesn't show the £20k each my siblings got when the will was made to step toward levelling it out. It also doesn't take into account the fact that they were all part of the discussions about the will - I wasn't because I was considered too young!

My SIL is coming round later. She's the only positive light in this one. I got a text saying she was coming after the children will be in bed with wine and crisps. She then sent another text telling me she was coming as my friend. It'll be good to have someone to talk too properly because DH is stuck in a place he hates doing a job he hates and can't leave for another week so I've only given him the basic outline as he'll hit the roof.

I had the joy of having to explain the situation with my parents in more detail with my 8 year old earlier. The kids have always known (Ds & Dd's remember my mother dying and one time before she died when she appeared on the door step), but it's always been age appropriate. 'Not very nice people' needed elaboration. It's the bit of this whole thing I hate the most, seeing mine try to work out in their brains how a Mummy and Daddy could be horrible when even I can't work it out.

Thank you again. I really appreciate having somewhere to brain dump. I used to use another forum, but it was all very much a "You only get one parent" type of place and they just didn't get it.

I suspect a lot of the angry and resentfulness they feel towards your parents is currently being projected onto you. I hope you manage to find the strength to be gracious towards despite all the sh*t they are throwing at you

Oh OP, I'm so sorry they are doing this. I would say maybe disengage with them now. Your brother is being a twat and until he/they calm down you won't be able to get any sense out of them. I would stop replying to any emails or messages. Just stop.

I hope that your SIL is indeed coming round as your friend and not to try to change your mind or report back to your siblings.

Have a big hug, and xx

I agree, you don't need to engage now, it's too much, although yes that bollocks about the will would drive me doo-lally too.

The truth of the matter is that you didn't set the will, they did, so they don't need to bleat at you. It's all about finding the one thing to make you come to heel, so they will go for the jugular. They are acting out of the fear of their father, and wanting you all to validate their decisions. You're right, that's why they are so visceral. If you were wrong, they'd just shrug and carry on.

I too hope that your sil IS the friend and not a flying monkey. If she even remotely asks you to reconsider your stance, lead her to the door, no fuss, no drama, just that its time to go and you're tired or whatever

My SIL is fine. She's barely speaking to my brother over this and they've had furious rows about him trying to persuade DN to visit his "Grandad". She's been around our family for over 20 years, knew my grandparents and thinks they are all being harsh and hypocritical.

The will thing is so out of line I don't know how I'll ever feel about my brother again. I was left my grandparents flat. They were left £15k each. It sounds very black and white and unfair. But when the will was made I was still at high school, Grampa had died and Nana wanted to make sure that if she died I wouldn't lose my home while I was at school or uni. The flat was valued at about 45k at the time. Both of my brothers were looking at buying their first homes at that point so the three of them were given 20k. So they were getting 35 and I was getting 45, which wasn't fair, but they all agreed was fair and right because of the age issue.

As it was when my Nana died I had left uni because of having my DDs and being let down by their Dad and the flat was worth 60k. However I didn't take a penny in cash from any of the insurances and although I still got more it was less than 8k more and they were all ok with that because they felt there was no point making me sell for 2k each and I had done all of the caring for Nana in her final couple of years and she lived with me and my DDs for a short time because we lived on the ground floor. My DN's were also left small bequests, but by the time I'd had my DDs my Nana had dementia so they were not included and my siblings felt the 8k would also have to be split with them if we were going down the 'exact same' route so there was no point.

When my godmother/great aunt died two years later she left me a small amount of money and I offered my siblings the difference because I did feel it was unfair, but they felt that in the grand scheme of things everything had evened out.

The value of the flat now (almost 10 years later when the whole area has changed and I've spent money on new windows, kitchen, bathroom etc) is being bandied about as unfair, but I honestly don't think that is fair. The value of their homes has gone up so surely their cash given is also worth more?

I just hope he dies quickly. I know that's an awful thing to say, but we all thought he was dead before because of the drink and drugs. Now he's come back like a bad smell and I just want it gone. just like the scar on my hand some of his damage will probably last forever though. He'll probably be happy with that.

Thank you.

Gosh they all sound awful.

Hope things go well with yourSIL.

It's as if they are jealous that they have been sucked back in & you haven't.

I suspect a lot of the angry and resentfulness they feel towards your parents is currently being projected onto you.

I think RandomMess could be right here. It is the complexity of the feelings you all have towards your parents that is in play here.

I can't even begin to understand why your siblings want to pressure you into doing something you have made it so clear that you don't want to.

But you have been nothing but reasonable so far as I can see. Hope you have a good chat with SIL, and that it helps you feel a bit more supported in real life.

The FOG for your parents how have nasty is very very strong, perhaps yours is less because there were never any good times and you escaped younger.

I really hope they come to their sense quickly and I'm so pleased SIL is coming as a friend not a flying monkey.

I'm sorry your siblings are behaving like this. They are bullying you and trying to control and manipulate you and whatever their reasoning behind it they are behaving appallingly and it's not surprising that it's changing your opinion of them. I would wonder how long they've felt resentful though I do agree with the others above who think they are projecting.

Glad you have your SIL helping you. I would just ignore them now, block them if you have to. I wonder if they realise just how much they are all acting like your dad.

I think they must think they know better. Or think I'm hiding something when I say I feel nothing toward the man. I don't even hate him anymore. I used too, but I don't even feel that anymore because he's not worth that.

It's just puggling my brain because I can't work out if they really are resentful, do they actually feel that I'm spoilt and ungrateful? Because if they do then the relationships I've had with them since I was a teenager have been based on lies.

And if they are projecting then they are re-writing history. If anyone should be jealous then it should be me. They can go to that hospice and reminisce about times when they went to the park, or family dinners, or when they got nice things for Christmas. They have good memories before he found drugs. I have none. Not a single one. When he was at his worst they were at school so at least escaped for some of the day. Even when I was "safe" at our Grandparents it was a safety that involved hoping the police got to the door before he kicked it in. I wonder if they think they all went off to uni and everything was idyllic? But they know it wasn't, or I thought they did know.

Who knows. I've turned my phone off and I'm not checking my email again. If they want to pick a fight they'll have to pick it elsewhere - they might be prepared to let him do this to us, but I'm not.

I'm going to see if I can make a counselling appointment next week. I don't know how long waitng lists are if you can pay for it, but I think it's a good idea to talk it through with someone outside the whole family circle. I can't talk to MIL about this. It's too embarassing. And she doesn't like my eldest brother, never has, so she would struggle to be impartial.

I just wanted to post to say that you sound so 'switched on' to your understanding of financial fairness, emotional sapping and, perhaps more importantly, the re-writing of history and feelings.

Please don't let all your counselling go to waste at this critical point in your life. This is when you need to stay in your safe space, and your siblings are using every trick in the book. Don't worry about your DH being away, you have a team of wise MNetters on this thread who will hold your hand at every step of the way when you need us.

I am delighted to know that your SIL is also your friend. You need someone in RL to just speak to openly and honestly.

My DM is 91yrs old, recently had another spell in hospital, then a care home - and she goes back to her house next week to try to manage with a care package. She gave me away to a childless couple when I was 3 weeks old but I still had some contact with my siblings as I grew up. I was included in the beatings with a leather belt on bare buttocks when 'all the children had to punished because the perpetrator hadn't owned up'. (I wasn't even there when the naughty incident had happened.) But she has re-written history, and my siblings are choosing to forget. I am not going to drive 150 miles to help to take care of her in her 'last days'. I feel no love for her, and it won't happen just because my siblings are telling me that 'I owe her as my birth mother'. I will phone her simply out of respect for an elderly person who is facing the last days of her life. I'm not even sure if I would attend her funeral yet..... I'll make that decision when I have to.

Stay strong - you are entirely right. Don't feel pressured by the siblings (I really know what you are going through). When I get my next shouty phone call from a sibling, I will 'channell you'.