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Original poster

Children shouldn't be taught to curtsey for the queen at school

267 replies

Lemith · 02/10/2015 08:57

Thankfully not mine, but my sisters DD is preparing for a visit from Liz and they have all been told to curtsey / bow before her.

I've nothing against the monarchy particularly, but I dont like all this wankery and would treat them just like any other stranger.

Liz once or twice a year gets in my way when she's had a road closed and caused massive inconvince to us commoners.

Aibu to think this should be the child's choice how they greet royals?

OP posts:
ComposHatComesBack · 02/10/2015 17:11

To simply declare it is etiquette is non thinking bollocks. You have to question what kind of person expects other humans to offer a humiliatingly servile greeting to them. I wonder if it has ever entered the queen's head that she meets people who have displayed extraordinary commitment, self-sacrifice and courage yet they are expected to prostrate themselves before her?

I would rather follow my grandfather's mantra of "I'll shake hands with any man, but I'll bend my knee to none."

absolutelynotfabulous · 02/10/2015 17:22

compost I've often wondered what's going through Her Maj's head when people are bowing and scraping before her too. I wonder if this servile wankery will carry on once Charles is on the throne (if he ever gets there). Surely these people have SOME self awareness?

Liomsa · 02/10/2015 17:32

That's what kills me about those garden parties and the like, the ones that aren't frills for the famous, but gatherings of ordinary people who do quietly heroic things on a daily basis, unheralded, unsung, unpaid, often unthanked. While worrying about the bills, raising children, working a minimum wage job.

Yet they are curtseying to an anachronism who chief virtue is that she's never said anything controversial, fallen drunk out of a nightclub, or indeed done anything more than read a speech someone wrote for her and open a lot of community centres in a hat. Her most controversial act seems to have been not flying a flag at half-mast when failing to notice a lot of people had gone slightly mad with imaginary grief. How fucked up is that? And how fucked up is a system that thinks that the unsung heroes who go to garden parties should pay automatic deference to her because 'it's etiquette'?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 02/10/2015 17:44

FirstWeTakeManhattan - you do not have to curtsey.

The Telegraph article, linked to earlier, quotes Dickie Arbiter, the Queen's former Press Secretary saying that the Queen is 'very relaxed' about whether people curtsey/bow or not.

Oldraver · 02/10/2015 17:47

What happens if you don't curtsy? Do MI5 have a stern word or what?

I do know that if you hold up a 'Down with the Monachy' banner as Liz is passing you will get very smart suited police officers pull you up to look at your banner..then nicely fold it up and put it back in your bike basket Grin

I bow to no one and I would be furious if a teacher 'taught' my child too. Though it would be entirely their choice I would be disappointed if they did

SirChenjin · 02/10/2015 17:48

Liomsa - that's what I thought garden parties were all about until I went to one earlier in the year. It was very well stocked with the upper classes who all knew each other, obviously all nominated each other or something, and it was obviously part of their annual social calendar. Both dh and I came away feeling as if we were part of some 'let's mix with the commoners, it'll be a hoot' stage show.

MiddleAgeMiddleEngland · 02/10/2015 17:53

I would be respectful to Elizabeth Windsor like I would be to any other old person.

However, I would never curtsey, bow or do anything else deemed subservient. Neither would I sing the National Anthem. As a republican athiest it has no relevance to me.

I was once disciplined at work for refusing to join in the corporate curtseying to a visiting royal Grin

absolutelynotfabulous · 02/10/2015 18:04

middle is that you, Jeremy Corbyn?Grin

Brioche201 · 02/10/2015 18:10

It would be treason and they will have their heads cut off

AgentCooper · 02/10/2015 18:29

Would I curtsey for the Queen? Would i fuck.

Dyed in the wool republican here, though. And I wouldn't want to encourage deference to an unelected leader who is in power due to an accident of birth in any child of mine. Etiquette and the whole U/non-U business actually make me so mad. It's not even funny, just crass.

NiNoKuni · 02/10/2015 18:57

I do know that if you hold up a 'Down with the Monachy' banner as Liz is passing you will get very smart suited police officers pull you up to look at your banner..then nicely fold it up and put it back in your bike basket

Hahaha! I salute you that person Grin

annielouise · 02/10/2015 19:05

Thought there'd be the usual weirdos on this thread saying go move country if you don't want to curtsy. Strange people. It's not necessary and I'd never do it. If it was at my DC's primary I'd hate for them to have to curtsey or bow but if you said anything the school would probably stick them at the back or not allow them to join in. So it would be a dilemma but I probably couldn't help myself telling the kids about my views and try and leave it open to them to decide on the day. Royals don't deserve any more respect than anyone else, and certainly don't deserve servitude. Be polite as you would to anyone but that's it.

ilovesooty · 02/10/2015 19:08

I suspect Charles is keener on servile wankery than the Queen is.

He certainly spends more money and lives more lavishly.

SenecaFalls · 02/10/2015 19:11

And why the gender difference? Why do men and boys get to incline their heads slightly, but women and girls have to bend at the knees? A handshake is nice and gender neutral.

PiperChapstick · 02/10/2015 19:24

YANBU and I'm amazed at the number of people saying "they should just do it because that's what you do". What a horrible lesson to teach small children, that because they weren't born into a certain family they literally have to lower themselves to people who were.

As an aside I met Prince Charles when we had a local shooting (I was a press officer at the time) and he was meeting the victims families about 5 days after the deaths.

The very snooty Royal PR bloke set out rules beforehand, like we can't speak to Charles unless spoken to and only shake his hand when he reaches for it, no eye contact unless he initiates it etc. It fucked me off at the time as I'm from a small community and the shootings rocked everyone's world who was there that day and this wankery paled into insignificance yet it was like the wankery was the most important thing. The team showed zero compassion.

I'm pleased to say Charles was lovely and clearly didn't abide by the wankery, he was chatty and pleasant, asked our names and job roles etc and didn't act like we were beneath him in the least. I have met town councillors with much bigger egos I can assure you! I wasn't present when he spoke with the families but they had a glowing report as well. So maybe Lizzy cringes at the etiquette you never know!

EponasWildDaughter · 02/10/2015 19:32

What do all the people who say ''you should do it because that's what you should do'' say to the fact that it is not, in fact, 'what you should do'? Is is not expected that you curtsy.

''there are no obligatory codes of behaviour - just courtesy.''
From
www.HM The Queen/Overview.

Are these people reading it a bit wrong perhaps. It's not curtsy - it's courtesy that's expected.

pigsDOfly · 02/10/2015 19:36

Perhaps that's part of the problem Piper. Perhaps it's not so much the royals themselves that perpetuate these 'rules' but the snobby flunkies surrounding them and organising their lives that like to keep these things going because it makes them feel important and 'royal' by association.

00100001 · 02/10/2015 19:43

get a real problem OP

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 02/10/2015 19:45

How many times do people have to say, on this thread, that it is NOT obligatory to bow/curtsey to the Queen?

Her former press secretary, Dickie Arbiter says she is very relaxed about whether people bow/curtsey.

So please, stop frothing about being forced to bow or curtsey - because it is not obligatory. If anyone tells you it is - they are wrong. Why get worked up about being made to do something you aren't going to be made to do?

If you cannot bow or curtsey or do not feel comfortable doing so, you do not have to.

Arsicles · 02/10/2015 19:53

But the OP's DN is being made to do it!

Personally I think the fact that some people do it demeans us all somehow. It makes those who don't curtsy/bow appear far more militant than they probably are feeling, as if they're massively making a point, when in fact they are the ones doing what's normal.

JeffsanArsehole · 02/10/2015 20:04

Of course a new loo is not fitted on every visit, she makes 400 plus engagements a year.

I'm a Republican and would happily bow to the Queen. She's marvellous, one of a kind, works really hard and I respect her very much. If I thought I could make her even slightly happy for a nanosecond by curtsying I would. She has done nothing but devote herself utterly to the country she serves.

It's perfectly possible to disagree with monarchy politically and still respect and want to show her gratitude.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 02/10/2015 20:11

I agree that the DN's school needs to be told that it isn't obligatory, arsicles.

usual · 02/10/2015 20:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsRossPoldark · 02/10/2015 20:20

Very silly thread. Republican, monarchist, who cares? We are British, we have a Queen to whom it is common good manners to curtsey.

Same as its good manners to give up your seat on the bus to anyone who needs it, or (yes, I do think it's polite) to hold a door open for a lady.

To those who say "like f I'd curtsey", I'll remember you when you are pregnant, disabled, or old & consider staying in my comfy seat when you get on the bus, or slamming the f'g door in your face!

But having been taught manners by my orders & betters, I probably wouldn't.

PurpleDaisies · 02/10/2015 20:25

I absolutely would not be curtsying to anyone. I don't think it is right to make the kids do it either when it isn't even obligatory. Completely outdated.