to think 5yr old shouldn't be taught creationism in a state school?

[sparklewater]

Exactly that really. Our primary is not supposed to have any religious leaning at all - but the headmistress is quite religious and so we have close ties with the local church etc. That's fine, community spirit, etc.

However, I keep finding out little things - such as saying Amen at the end of assembly (which suggests there has been a prayer) and that the weekly singing assembly is hymn-based. Yesterday, dd suddenly started telling me how the world began (with God saying let there be light, apparently) and said that God is everyone's father.

I've tried to explain it's just one option but WIBU to talk to the school?

there's another thread about this - UK schools have to have a morning act of worship for the christian sky fairy, unless they are faith schools of another flavour. So there will be a prayer.

you can withdraw your kid from this massive waste of time. But you certainly need to check that religion is not being peddled outside assembly.

Which country do you live in? I don't think Britain has secular schools, England certainly doesn't.

My dc were taught the story of creation in Y1 as part of learning about the Christian faith - it was taught as something some people believe, not as 'the truth.' One of them chose to believe it anyway, for a bit.

They have to, by law, have a daily act of worship that is broadly Christian in nature.

I agree totally with you that it has no place in schools. There are lots of campaigns around this but loads of mums-netters will come on and tell you that it shouldn't be a problem and you are making a fuss (I disagree - a fuss is what you need to make)

sadly your only option is to withdraw your child from the act of worship but I have been told that you can specifically say you want them to attend assemblies (Which don't have to be religious) but be excused from the praying part.

If you are going to talk to the school then it may be worth asking about your child not taking part. Go to speak to the governors if you think the teacher is setting her own religious agenda in the school.

The OP hasn't mentioned secular schools Barbarianmum.

They have to, by law, have a daily act of worship that is broadly Christian in nature

Do they? Our school certainly doesn't.

this might be interesting and this

Is that not what secular means? My mistake

DD said something like this last week , also Year 1. Then she said they were learning about Christianity. I'm assuming it's an RE lesson effectively as our school isn't a church school or religious at all. They are very literal at this age and take everything the teacher says as gospel (excuse the pun). Don't go in guns blazing as you might make a tit of yourself!

this too

Parents have the right to have their children excused from worship in any state-funded school. However, many decide not to, fearing that their child may feel different from classmates, and may miss important elements of assembly if the worship element is not kept clearly apart from secular spiritual, moral, social and cultural aspects, and from notices.

Those who take school assemblies should keep the two elements distinct and separate, and allow time for pupils (and teachers) to leave the room when worship takes place.

These exemptions are covered by Section 71 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998.

JohnCusacksWife

maybe your school has done this?

Schools can apply to the local authority’s SACRE for exemption from the “broadly Christian” requirement for some or all of their pupils. This is called a “determination”, and alternative worship must be provided for these pupils, although parents still have the right to have their children excused from this worship. These exemptions are covered by Schedule 20 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998.

In some authorities, such as the London Borough of Brent, SACREs have agreed determinations of whole schools for worship that is multi-faith rather than of a broadly Christian character. The BHA considers this to be a useful interim development, but not a solution.

the legislation is here

"All maintained schools must provide religious education and daily
collective worship for all registered pupils and promote their spiritual,
moral and cultural development.
Local agreed RE syllabuses for county schools and equivalent
grant-maintained schools must in future reflect the fact that religious
traditions in the country are in the main Christian whilst taking account
of the teaching and practices of other principal religions. Syllabuses
must be periodically reviewed.
Collective worship in county schools and equivalent grant-maintained
schools must be wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character,
though not distinctive of any particular Christian denomination."

DS's school has included a song in the school harvest concert which talks about saying thank you to god our father for food.

DS hasn't asked me yet who God is but I am looking forward to busting the myth that an imaginary person gives us food, or creates the weather needed to grow food.

I could have written this OP and have been discussing this very subject with my colleague this morning. It drives me bonkers. School is 'non-denominational'. Is it bollocks. Very close ties with local C of E church. My daughter is reading a prayer for harvest festival assembly 'dear god, thank you for this that and the other'.

God created the earth according to her and everything in it. I am yet to have the dinosaur debate

Questions I have been asked by my dd from the age of 5yo 'Why don't you believe in God?', 'If god loves everybody, why do people die from drinking dirty water/have no food'.

I want to say, cos there is no such fucking thing!!!!!

I don't want to take her out of classes and she is quite happy with it, but there is a hell of a lot of it.

My primary school was an out-and-out 'state school', not in anyway faith related. Apparently. We had morning, lunch and afternoon prayers, and R.E lessons every day. I wouldn't want this for my child - learning about different religions is fine, but acting as if one is actually real, no. If that's what a parent wants, then that's what faith schools are for. I don't think you would be unreasonable speaking to the school about where their line is about 'educating about world religions' and actualy preaching.

Just remembered, one of DD's homework tasks was to discuss what you think God might look like. I was so proud when she said:

He wears My Little Pony Legging with a t-shirt saying 'I'm the boss of the world'. He also wears a helmet.

We have to write down 'things to celebrate' that your children have done/said to make you proud.

I was made up to send this is

I think this is another Scotland/England divide. There's no compulsion for daily worship in Scotland. I think the minimum requirement os 6 time s a year, from memory.

All state primary school have a statutory obligation under the 1988 Education Act to hold a daily act of collective worship "broadly Christian in nature"

Parents have a right to withdraw their children from this and from RE lessons. Generally speaking, though, RE lessons are about different faiths and do a lot of "some people believe" but it does depend a lot on the teacher. It is pretty unlikely that he is being taught Creationism as fact- if he is you need to contact OFSTED. But he is probably just being told Bible stories and will be told stories of other faiths down the line.

The collective worship thing is completely outrageous. There are often threads about this and there are a group of Christians who come on to say "oh, come on, a little bit of Christianity doesn't do any harm" and to defend their privileged position while denying that they have one.

If it's any help, my DD (5) hasn't had much exposure to religion, but still came out with stuff about God being in the sky yesterday. I don't think either her school or nursery are particularly religious.

I think it is a bit of a phase. Much like centuries ago, before we had scientific explanations of the natural world most people explained it through religion. Children don't have much of an understanding of how things work, so come out with supernatural explanations. We also encourage them to believe in magic, fairies etc. I explained why I don't believe - because I look for evidence and I just don't think that the evidence is there. I honestly think that DD will move to a more rational phase eventually. But I'm enjoying the good bits of this one, like believing in Father Christmas.

YABU.
We got taught both creationism and evolution at our school. (Not British here). Point is, believe whatever you wish, but an educated person should know both. Nobody ever kicked up a stink about this. And R.E. Was an optional subject.

They will teach evolution in science. RE will teach that.

molyholy I would tell my children that. I was prepared to leave it open and remain neutral as long as the school did, and thankfully my children's school did. Implanting a religious belief that wasn't there before is unacceptable.
Creationism isn't an 'alternative view', it's a myth, a story and should be presented as such.
Concerning worship at assembly, my kids school managed to interpret this very loosely, so they talked about and sang songs about things like being nice to each other without mentioning deities. They did christmassy plays instead of nativities.
To me, that is what a state school should do,with RE lessons of course. RE should only be taught as a foundation for other subjects though, such as history. Anything more is unneccesary.

molyholy your DD rocks!

My DS(5) has even shown me how to pray with head bent, hands clasped. I hate it. And its rubbish that the only other option is for a child to be isolated/excluded. Non faith school too. That and the level of patriotism drives me mad. He had a long phase of trying to convince me how amazing our queen is.

We got taught both creationism and evolution at our school. (Not British here). Point is, believe whatever you wish, but an educated person should know both.

I am cool with that as long as it's crystal clear that one is a scientific theory and the other is christian myth and taught in RE class.

Perhaps step back and consider the vast amount of biblical references in literature and film. It can be a disadvantage in later years to not have some knowledge of the bible/main stories, as some students on my English Lit course found.

Also, children should learn about all religions through stories and looking at ceremonies/celebrations. It seems to be 'a thing' now for some parents to be happy for their children to learn about all religions except Christianity!

Little ones love the Creation Story. They also love the story of Ganesh, and The Monkey King, and Diwali. They ask lots of questions, it's good for getting them thinking about life, the Universe and everything.

Let's ban Santa, the Tooth Fairy and Elves while we're at it, * forbid children should enjoy imagining/magical things that don't have a scientific explanation .

"Point is, believe whatever you wish, but an educated person should know both."

I disagree. well... it's all very well teaching about different religions as an educational subject in a 'some people believe' way, but teaching 5 year olds that God is real is not the same.

Those of us without religion shouldn't have to accept the introduction of Gods and worship by schools to our children as fact.