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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think 5yr old shouldn't be taught creationism in a state school?

123 replies

sparklewater · 01/10/2015 12:44

Exactly that really. Our primary is not supposed to have any religious leaning at all - but the headmistress is quite religious and so we have close ties with the local church etc. That's fine, community spirit, etc.

However, I keep finding out little things - such as saying Amen at the end of assembly (which suggests there has been a prayer) and that the weekly singing assembly is hymn-based. Yesterday, dd suddenly started telling me how the world began (with God saying let there be light, apparently) and said that God is everyone's father.

I've tried to explain it's just one option but WIBU to talk to the school?

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 01/10/2015 16:40

"Oh, not that old bollocks again!

I think 90% of posters are confused about this."

Or choose to appear so because it suits their agenda.......

Egosumquisum · 01/10/2015 16:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

M4blues · 01/10/2015 20:39

Why is it confusing? The is a very clear difference between education and indoctrination. It's a bloody disgrace that this is still happening in our state funded schools. What would ofsted say if I decided to teach dragons as history (sadly I've seen that in a school too) or Jedi worship?

Lweji · 01/10/2015 21:26

Even being religious, I was raised in a non-religious school environment, and I strongly advocate that religion should be kept out of school.

Let alone creationism!

HermioneWeasley · 01/10/2015 21:36

(Replying to comment from other thread as we've been told to post here) You can pick a damn sight fewer holes in evolution than you can in Christianity. And there is plenty of evidence for evolution and absolutely none, zero, zilch for God, miracles, efficacy of prayer or the divine Jesus. So no, I don't think they should both be taught or given equal weight as possibilities.

DisappointedOne · 01/10/2015 23:55

Perhaps step back and consider the vast amount of biblical references in literature and film. It can be a disadvantage in later years to not have some knowledge of the bible/main stories, as some students on my English Lit course found.

They should be taught as stories, and stories only.

Also, children should learn about all religions through stories and looking at ceremonies/celebrations. It seems to be 'a thing' now for some parents to be happy for their children to learn about all religions except Christianity!

I want DD to learn about all religions, but I only want her to participate in acts of worship if it's something she's decided to do. Not because school forces them to.

Let's ban Santa, the Tooth Fairy and Elves while we're at it, forbid children should enjoy imagining/magical things that don't have a scientific explanation sad.*

I'm atheist, but admit that it's possible - all be it 99.999999999999999% unlikely - that there is any form of sky fairy.

It is not possible that there is a tooth fairy, Easter bunny or Santa Claus. Why parents and schools can push this LIE onto children whilst calling it magic is beyond me.

Egosumquisum · 02/10/2015 00:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IceBeing · 02/10/2015 00:33

Seriously - it is a bit of a ball ache but the bigger problem is segregating children by religion for the purposes of education in a world that needs more unity not less.

That and the state funded religious discrimination in the school system.

Absolutely disgraceful, and if we didn't have the resource to home ed we would have to move to somewhere enlightened that actual separates state and religion, particularly with reference to education.

sugar21 · 02/10/2015 00:44

I was brought up with a religion, which I believe in and it has helped me through a dreadful tkme. Having said that I didnt have dd1 baptised as I wanted her to choose for herself. Although I had dd2 chistened quickly in hospital because she hadnt got long t

kali110 · 02/10/2015 00:46

I don't see anything wrong with creationism being taught.
Simply say this is how some people believe the earth was made.
This is how science sYs the earth, humans were made etc
I also have no problem with the religious assemblies.
I have no religion, however i enjoyed these assemblies as a child.
I Never believed in christianity as a child from joining in but i loved the hyms and learning the stories just like all the other religions.
Think it's very unfair to call creationism a myth, daft or lies. I don't believe it myself, but others do and don't believe it is any of these things and As is very important to them.
I wouldn't say to them they were wrong for believing, or that they were wrong.

IceBeing · 02/10/2015 00:50

I don't think creationism is a myth as such...but there is an awful lot of good solid evidence that it is wrong. I therefore think it is okay to say it is wrong in the same way that even if some people believe the world is flat it is still wrong.

'Daft' is also an odd word to use....I would definitely go with 'wrong'...or 'scientifically disproven'.

TheNewStatesman · 02/10/2015 00:56

Creationism should be "taught" in the same way that Ganesh the elephant god as taught--i.e. as a historical/cultural literacy thing. "This is what some people believe as part of their culture. It also used to be mainstream belief in the West until we discovered how evolution works."

Of course it should not be taught as actual fact!

As for the daily act of worship, could we PLEASE PLEASE get rid of this crap? This is a leftover from then time when most British people were practicing Christians.

littlefrenchonion · 02/10/2015 01:13

I went to a CofE primary, I am not or have ever been religious, neither are my parents. It was just a good school so I got sent there.

It doesn't necessarily 'rub off' on them. It was more of a cultural experience for me, I think. Much like Christmas.

In fact it's done me well on the few occasions I've had to sit in a church for funerals, weddings etc - it's familiar. Comforting even.

noeffingidea · 02/10/2015 01:22

kali it is a myth though, a story. The fact that some people believe it's true doesn't change that.
If you teach children , or allow them to think, that it's true then you are misleadng them and depriving them of a proper education.

FanOfSpam · 02/10/2015 01:22

Whether you like it or not this is still a Christian country. What the frig are you so afraid of? Surely stories about 'mythical' 'sky fairies' are harmless?

IceBeing · 02/10/2015 01:25

I would mostly agree having been a church going child...and I would agree it won't give you god if you aren't going to get it anyway..except that some of the embedded 'cultural' messages can be quite damaging I think.

eg.
'Be good and good things will happen to you'
simply not true, as any number of good people dying before their time should indicate

'Deprive yourself in this life to get rewarded in the next'
massive waste of potential if it isn't true

'Women are lesser than men...and beware their seductive destructive wiles'
no amount of having a few women bishops is going to magically erase the misogyny in the bible from Eve onwards...

I could obviously go on but it is late.

IceBeing · 02/10/2015 01:27

The sky fairies aren't harmless if people think they want violence against the unbelievers though are they? Or that women shouldn't be allowed to drive cars or go out alone...

Well obviously the fairies would still be harmless but the belief in them isn't.

Egosumquisum · 02/10/2015 06:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ladyvimes · 02/10/2015 08:36

Learning about the creation story isn't creationism though is it? Very few Christians actually believe the creation story is absolute fact and see it more as a representative story to teach about something much more complex. I seriously doubt that many schools will teach children that the creation story is base fact!
Also saying Amen and singing a hymn isn't going to radicalise a child. To a non-religious child a hymn is just a song and Amen is just a word. I think attitudes at home have far more impact.

AbeSaidYes · 02/10/2015 10:00

Whether you like it or not this is still a Christian country. What the frig are you so afraid of? Surely stories about 'mythical' 'sky fairies' are harmless?

it's not about being scared.

it's about not wanting our small children to have to learn in school to pray and that God gives us vegetables. There are other places we could take them for that if we wanted to.

The point is that Religion has no place in schools apart from in a 'learning about other people's beliefs' sense.

BertrandRussell · 02/10/2015 10:04

And here we go.

The disingenuous refusal to see the clear difference between learning about Christianity practising Chriwtianity.

The wide eyed "what are you afraid of- a little bit of Christianity isn't going to do any harm....."

I'm not afraid of anything. I don't think saying "Amen" is going to form my child into a evangelical Christian.

It is just outrageous that in order to take part fully in the life of a tax payer funded non denominational state school you have to be a nominal Christian.

Imagine if you had to pray before the NHS surgeon took your appendix out. Or before you took your driving test. Ridiculous, yes? How is learning to read any different?

AbeSaidYes · 02/10/2015 10:06

and... now I think about it, I know that if my son (who has been at school for 4 weeks) ends up in a position at the harvest festival where he is asked to put his hands together and pray then I will be thinking very seriously about asking for him to be exempted from the praying stuff.

Blu · 02/10/2015 10:14

"All maintained schools must provide religious education and daily
collective worship for all registered pupils and promote their spiritual,
moral and cultural development."

What IS spiritual development? Why should state schools be obliged by law to promote something (a spirit) that many of us do not believe exists?

I am not afraid of anything, my DC has taken part in religious ceremonies from a range of religions and is well acquainted with a range of beliefs as we have 3 mainstream religions within the extended family. But as a law, in a state, tax funded system, this is just wrong.

Lweji · 02/10/2015 10:15

But as a law, in a state, tax funded system, this is just wrong.

Fully agree.

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