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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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to think being a paedophile isn't a crime?

999 replies

KissingFish · 30/09/2015 11:04

I see posts from people both on here and other places (Facebook) about how paedophiles should all be killed and confusing the terms paedophile and child molester / child abuser.

They're not the same thing and honestly I don't think being a paedophile is a crime. It is a sexual orientation that nobody chooses to be born with. The same way people are born straight or gay.

Just because someone is a paedophile it doesn't mean they have acted on it and so it doesn't mean they are a child molester.

Surely if we all accepted that paedophilia is a sexual orientation we could help these people before they commit a crime. Before they act on it. I bet there are a LOT more paedophiles out there than we know about. They just don't act on it because they know it's wrong to act on it.

I am of course not saying being sexually attracted to children is a good thing or that it should ever be OK to act on it. No way. Just that I don't think people choose to be a paedophile and it must be pretty scary to realise you are attracted to children. Much the same way it used to be about being gay. And I don't imagine you can just ask friends, family or many people actually for help and advice.

I think in order to deal with a problem you need to understand it first.

I am willing to be convinced otherwise though if anyone has a good argument?

Disclaimer: I am not a paedophile, I just don't believe they are all evil.

OP posts:
PatrickJaneIsRedJohn · 30/09/2015 18:42

This is why I don't believe a paedophiles who has abused a child can ever be rehabilitated. It's a sexual preference, it will always be there. They might pretend they have changed, but deep down, they feel the same.

Booyaka · 30/09/2015 18:43

hairbrush have a look at pages 7,8 and 9. It'sAllGoing talks about mutually pleasurable sexual relationships between adults and children and claiming that they were not psychologically harmful and that the only harm was caused by societies views of these relationships. The psychological damage is supposedly done when they become aware that society does not condone these acts, rather than the act itself. The logical conclusion of that kind of thinking is that if only society would stop condemning acts of child abuse they would become harmless mutual sexual acts between adults and children.

And if that's not minimising and normalising child abuse I don't know what is.

Elendon · 30/09/2015 18:45

So theDudesmumy how do you get onto the sex offender's register?

hairbrushbedhair · 30/09/2015 18:45

'Sometimes, a child may be confused if they experienced positive physical pleasure

So Lily you expect a 1, 2, 3, 4 etc year old child to have the understanding when a physical sensation such as being tickled occurs on their genitalia that this is wrong?

I'd say it would be pretty confusing. It's victim blame to suggest that a small child knows the difference tbh. Considering small children often have their hands in their pants, some children DO enjoy the physical sensation.

I can only imagine it would be incredibly confusing to later realise you enjoyed something that was so sick and wrong. But it's disgusting to imply that any small child would know not to participate and wouldn't experience any physical pleasure before they had an understanding of what was occurring

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 30/09/2015 18:47

This line truly made me feel like vomiting after all of your other posts.

That was not my line, that (and the entire quote) was from the link I referenced underneath the quote which was a child-abuse prevention site.

lilycabbagerocks · 30/09/2015 18:47

Exactly Morse, and when your baby is born if you are planning to have children, maybe you are already pregnant, that feeling is magnified by about million. It is a real fear that lies in every parent's heart, which is why it was so cruel to bring this discussion to MN of all places, to try to look for compassion or tolerance for child abusers

I am not sure what has happened to the huge band of posters that were supporting the apologist view. They have either been reported and are off line or it really was set up and they have given up/gone elsewhere.

Patrick - chemical castration may slow things down. I wish it was mandatory with serial abusers.

hairbrushbedhair · 30/09/2015 18:50

Elendon you were arguing the point I had already made in my original post. That it would have an impact by way of parenting.

I'm not really sure why you were arguing something I had already said

Elendon · 30/09/2015 18:50

Patrick they can't be rehabilitated, but knowing they exist and admission of the deviancy is a way in which to control it. Some wish to put it as part of the sexual palate of a human being - I know Hmm

And also, treating them like the human beings they are, but never, ever excusing the deviancy or acts, will make their life easier and the rest of the community breathe easier too.

Hanging them will only drive it underground.

kali110 · 30/09/2015 18:51

I'll believe it.
Believe it or not, not all of us are part of some ring or lobbyist ( i actually don't even know what that is).
I've never sympathised with people who actually abuse children or others or what they do.
I only felt sorry for people who truly didn't want to be like that and didn't want to act on it.
I realise that there must only be a few like this!
I'm def not apologising for people abusing children, they do not deserve my sympathy, they had a choice.
If they truly wanted to not be that way, then they would not abuse.
I do think there should be better help, definitely before a crime is committed!
If there is no real help before, then what's stopping the few that don't want to abuse from abusing, if they know they won't get the help till they commit a crime?
If they get the help before they commit the crime, then possibly a child is stopped from being harmed, so a good thing!
As for the difference between abusers etc i don't see or care about the differences. To me when they commit any type of act, even if it's just viewing a video then they're all the same.

Elendon · 30/09/2015 18:51

Ok hairbrush.

Gottagetmoving · 30/09/2015 18:52

I can't believe how this thread has turned out since I was on earlier!
People have misinterpreted things others have said until people are actually believing that paedophilia is being condoned and even approved of.

I think some of you have taken leave of your senses!
What sort of mind twists what people say and accuses people of normalizing abuse? No one has done that!
It's clear to see where the sickness is. Shameful!

lilycabbagerocks · 30/09/2015 18:52

Well said Kali.

kali110 · 30/09/2015 18:52

I also don't see it as sexual orientational. That implies that it is right.

NotSoHappyBeet · 30/09/2015 18:53

Fucking disgusting.

'Mutual pleasure' in a sexual relationship between an adult and CHILD!

What the fucks going on mumsnet? This is the last place I'd expect a load of pedo apologists.

The thread started off with some points to think about but it's rapidly gone into very uncomfortable and sick territory.

lilycabbagerocks · 30/09/2015 18:56

Notsohappy...

yes it did, it was god awful, and you were lucky not to be a part of it. Since when do you come on MN to look for compassion for paedos?

kali110 · 30/09/2015 18:57

Notso where was that said? I must have missed that.
I'm rather glad.

hairbrushbedhair · 30/09/2015 18:58

I really still can't see any pedo apologists.

I can see parents who feel society fails to prevent abuse by the way we get out the pitchforks the moment someone admits to being one, even if they never intend to, never will and never do actually abuse a child. We push them underground further by this attitude and into the so called support of other pedophiles who may normalise and okay their sexual attraction because that's the only group of society that will accept their existence

Elendon · 30/09/2015 18:58

And the booby prize goes to Gotta

I think some of you have taken leave of your senses!

lilycabbagerocks · 30/09/2015 18:58

Gottage

Up to now you have been quite the apologist so why the change of heart? Perhaps the real posters are now on line and this is more in line with what most mothers and fathers feel, sickened to the stomach by it all.

freerangeeggs · 30/09/2015 18:59

I was abused as a child so I feel obliged to comment here. I know what I want to say, but I'm not sure I'm articulate enough to express it.

My issue isn't with the principle expressed in the OP - I think few people would call for jailtime on the basis of pure 'thought-crime'.

My issue is with the definition of 'paedophile' as a sexual orientation. First of all, I think that the acceptance of homosexuality has encouraged a sort of binary view of sexuality: you're either born straight or gay, and that's genetic. It stands to reason, the argument seems to go, that other sexual orientations could also exist, defined by attraction to other groups. However, sexuality is much more fluid than that; few people are solely hetero- or homosexual, and everyone has their own preferences and sexual idiosyncrasies. I remember a story in the papers a while back about some guy who was caught having sex with a bike (somehow), but it would be odd to classify him as 'cyclosexual' or some such just because he got the horn and went for it with a BMX. A person's sexual interests can change over their lifetime, and dependent on context.

The context in which most children are abused is in the context of their vulnerability and the adult's opportunity. I don't believe that abusers are attracted to children, as such; rather, they see an opportunity for sexual gratification and take advantage of it. Children are easy targets, especially vulnerable ones. If abusers are attracted to anything other than the opportunity itself, it's the nature of that vulnerability and the power they can exert over another person. In my experience it is very much entwined with misogyny (I would argue that this is the case even in the abuse of male children, who are weak and vulnerable and therefore, in a sense, feminine). Abusers are not primarily enjoying the object (in this case, the child) of their abuses: they're enjoying the abuse itself.

I'm heterosexual, but I feel quite confident that, were sex with adult males outlawed tomorrow, I'd be able to control myself and wouldn't feel the need to force myself on vulnerable men - even more so if that were harmful to them, made them scared or caused them pain. There would be no danger of me overstepping that boundary because the thought of hurting another person is abhorrent to me.

Rapists do not have an 'orientation' that causes them to be tragically attracted to terrified men and women. Rather, they actively seek out opportunities to hurt others. They enjoy hurting others. Their sexual 'preference' is an extension of their own egotism, sadism and sense of entitlement to the bodies of other people. Child abusers are the same. They are not attracted to children; they are attracted to sexual gratification, and they're either indifferent to or turned on by the suffering they cause.

I hope I expressed myself clearly. I don't see that it can be an 'orientation' when the very essence of it is domination, subjugation and sadism exerted over the genuinely vulnerable (unlike BDSM between consenting adults); those are the contextual factors that would MAKE children attractive. The concept of childhood itself is surely too bound up in ideas about vulnerability, trust and 'innocence' to be divorced from those in the mind of even the most theoretical, tragic, non-criminal 'paedophile'.

Having said that, I do hope that people who may have these feelings are able to access treatment - I just don't think they'll want to for the reasons I've given above.

Elendon · 30/09/2015 19:00

Lily it was said earlier between 2 and 3 pm. I think the poster was Leedy.

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 30/09/2015 19:00

Interesting to see though lily the majority of deleted posts are yours.

CloakAndJagger · 30/09/2015 19:01

fabulous post freerangeeggs

hairbrushbedhair · 30/09/2015 19:03

Awesome post free range I wish you'd been here earlier as I think you've made an excellent point that hadn't yet been explored in the discussion

Elendon · 30/09/2015 19:03

Great post freerangeeggs

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