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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To dislike "Radical Feminism"

985 replies

InternetPerson · 25/09/2015 21:15

I've got nothing against feminists that fight for womens rights and genuinely want the best the best for everyone and don't hate anyone, but "RadFems" tend to be full of bitterness and hatred. And I'm not just talking about kids, these are high profile, intelligent women with power and influence. Do you think it's unreasonable to dislike something where most people think men are inherantly evil and to be feared? Or do you think their hatred is fair and we should respect them for their good work in trying to make humans hate eath other even more?

Like, I said, I have nothing against Feminism, it's done a lot of great work down the years and still does, but "Rad Fem" and "Feminism" are too completly different things in my opinion. Is this a wrong conclusion?

AIBU?

OP posts:
QueenStromba · 30/09/2015 08:07

Of course prominent radfems are going to be pissed with the trans community - as soon as they in any way indicate that they don't believe that men can really become women they get doxxed and threatened with rape and murder of them and their children. Hardly going to put you in a sympathetic mood that.

TheXxed · 30/09/2015 08:09

Still avoiding my question.

Egosumquisum · 30/09/2015 08:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheXxed · 30/09/2015 08:12

So you refuse to talk about why trans orthodoxy is so dangerous to black women, but we should just keep quiet and let this narrative damage our lives.

QueenStromba · 30/09/2015 08:12

I did run out of sympathy a lot quicker than most people but I really do try to keep my calm and not say things that might upset you - you do make that difficult though. Anyway - half of those 22 post aren't actually deletions, I've just used the word 'deleted'. I'd do the same for you but the last time someone linked to your old user names they got deleted.

QueenStromba · 30/09/2015 08:16

Just had a look and I make your deletion count 10 plus at least one whole thread under the three usernames I know.

TheXxed · 30/09/2015 08:18

Ego you came back to smeer other posters, alot of the posts that came up just now we're very personal stay classy.

Storming over other peoples feeling, refusing to engage on the topic and being selective about the posts you reply to is why so many posts have had the sympathy exhausted.

OutsSelf · 30/09/2015 08:19

Actually Ego, you did repeatedly raise the issue of exclusion from meetings. And when I made a statement about as a radfem welcoming transpeople's perspectives, and noting some transpeople were gender critical and not all radfems completely rejected transpeople, you said that it was like me saying namalt. Which it is not by the way for reasons such as it has never been a case of radfems violently policing transpeople, for a start. But anyway. You kept saying radfems as a class, as a group. And making it really clear meetings were your standard for exclusion. Which is very different from your statements in the last few pages.

Egosumquisum · 30/09/2015 08:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QueenStromba · 30/09/2015 08:22

Because you're always saying that you're going to leave the thread or stop talking about trans and you never actually do. How do you know that we were talking about you if you actually left the thread anyway? Have you got a google alert for the word 'ego' on mumsnet?

OutsSelf · 30/09/2015 08:23

I was trying to talk to you, as I did earlier in the thread. About issues you and I discussed earlier

LyndaNotLinda · 30/09/2015 08:23

Silencing women again. You're allowed to say your piece but we aren't allowed the right of reply.

Egosumquisum · 30/09/2015 08:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OutsSelf · 30/09/2015 08:26

I would just like you to square your earlier insisance on being in radfem meetings and insisting on the idea that they were a group from your later, it's not meetings, it'z just a few prominent radfems stance

TheXxed · 30/09/2015 08:27

I made it about race and you flounced.

FloraFox · 30/09/2015 08:54

i think a lot of people dislike radical feminists because they perceive them to be unkind. It is considered unkind not to agree that someone can be born in the wrong body and not to go Ali g with something you fundamentally disagree with. In a discussion about how women's oppression is rooted in their bodies and gender is a mechanism for enforcing oppression, we must "understands" how a person born free from that oppression longs to have the experience of the oppressed class. We must be careful not to upset that person especially as they tell us how they might resort to self-harm. So we must speak differently. We must check our words for kindness. Until there are no words left to describe the female experience that can be discussed without being unkind. Then we cannot speak of it. This is currently the case in liberal feminism where feminists will not allow the Vagina Monologues to be produced or abortion rights are no longer women's issues. Control of women's reproductive labour is at the heart of patriarchy but it's no longer a women's issue. This is where "kindness" takes us.

I don't want people to live in pain whatever the reason. Lots of people are living pained lives for a variety of reasons. A lot of women are living pained lives due to being born in a female body. It is not unkind to focus on addressing the oppression that causes that pain.

CoteDAzur · 30/09/2015 08:57

Exactly what Flora said. All of it.

AftosPouEinaiDeMasHezeisRe · 30/09/2015 09:07

Most adults accept that the world is not a kind place.

It is not kind to pay women less than men - but it is unkind of women to point it out.

It is not kind to tell an infertile woman that her body "fails to conceive", as though she is substandard - but it is unkind to talk about the fact that biological males cannot be mothers, they can be fathers.

The list could get bigger and bigger.

Lweji · 30/09/2015 09:44

It is not kind to pay women less than men - but it is unkind of women to point it out.

What are you saying?

QueenStromba · 30/09/2015 09:56

I think what Aftos is saying is that women are constantly getting the shitty end of the stick but if we try and point it out that makes us terrible people i.e. that we should be happy that we've been allowed to have any of the stick at all despite it's shittiness or shut up women and get back in the kitchen.

AftosPouEinaiDeMasHezeisRe · 30/09/2015 10:01

Yep, QueenStromba hits the nail on the head. That is what I am saying.

And frankly, I am tired of being kind while constantly having to accept other people's unkindness. I see no logical reason why I should prioritise other people's feelings for my entire life.

QueenStromba · 30/09/2015 10:07

Because you're a woman and that's what you've been socialised to do from birth?

AftosPouEinaiDeMasHezeisRe · 30/09/2015 10:09

As I said, no logical reason

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 30/09/2015 10:23

I am tired of it too it is so tiresome

yet it had to be pointed out that others suffer too

QueenStromba · 30/09/2015 10:27

It's probably both logical and illogical to do the things you've been conditioned to do from birth. Logical because that's the easiest path - it's very difficult to override your programming, you have to work hard at it every day and when you manage it the world will not appreciate you going off script, again making your life difficult. Illogical because your programming is probably not in your best interest (especially if you are a woman).