To dislike "Radical Feminism"

[InternetPerson]

I've got nothing against feminists that fight for womens rights and genuinely want the best the best for everyone and don't hate anyone, but "RadFems" tend to be full of bitterness and hatred. And I'm not just talking about kids, these are high profile, intelligent women with power and influence. Do you think it's unreasonable to dislike something where most people think men are inherantly evil and to be feared? Or do you think their hatred is fair and we should respect them for their good work in trying to make humans hate eath other even more?

Like, I said, I have nothing against Feminism, it's done a lot of great work down the years and still does, but "Rad Fem" and "Feminism" are too completly different things in my opinion. Is this a wrong conclusion?

AIBU?

I do not deny that Ego struggles discrimination and struggles

agree that at times we have to not think of others, what we say may upset others because of their personal struggles we have to at times put women and girls first

my struggles may overlap at times with a trans women but not on everything so why am I not allowed just to consider my issues and that of other women that have come from always being a female and want female space to discuss this or female spaces to simply feel safe

I do not deny a trans women telling me I do not share the same issues but I do object to be told that we are the same or share the same struggles I want them to be seen as different, though can at times work together and support each other as we both have a lot to overcome, we are not the same and I guess that is what a trans woman has to come to terms with and while I can understand that is hurtful I can not agree to be passive and agree in order not to be truthful because I do not want to deny what I am

Ego - as I said, and genuinely meant, I see that women and transwomen should be strong allies. But it is true that your very painful experience of feeling that you should have ovaries and a womb that enables you to give birth is different from a born-female experience of not being able to give birth, or of course from choosing not to give birth when society sees that this is the primary function of your existence…. and so there is overlap and forums of discussion where transwomen and women can meet together, and there are forums where transwomen and women need to meet separately to discuss their unique pressures, expectations and problems… and that is by no means to undermine the pain and reality of what a difficult lived experience that can be - rather, it is not to see one drowned out by the other.

Oh, I got called away and was very late coming back to finish my post and see the thread has moved on… as buffy has says "It actually seems kinder to me, to have a degree of separation between the two groups on these issues, because of the pain inflicted by both discussing and not discussing it"… that's what I mean too.

I've been lurking for a while and thought I'd just drop in briefly.

Ego, thank you for posting. It is helpful for me to hear your experiences and what you have to say on these topics.

The theories may not always align, but I think the goals mostly do. I don't see a reason for there to be a conflict between transgender people and radical feminists. It seems to me that they could be allies. There are a lot of similarities and I don't seen anything to be gained by focusing on the differences. On a personal level I see no problem with a trans woman comparing her struggles to mine.

ego I agree we have many overlaps: whatever our biological history, transwomen and biological women face some common issues, particularly sexism and violence from a patriarchal society.

Our different biologies may often lead to different perspectives and wishes, but when differences arise, let's try to debate these more kindly.
Let's not allow GF male posters stir up discord for their amusement.

Personally, if I see any deliberate misgendering or "dick" insults, I'll post on the thread and report too.

oops I see ipad has burped up another 2 pages.

I am sorry, ego You experience confusion and problems that we don't, just as we experience some problems you don't.
I do hope life becomes more comfortable for you in the future

I don't post much, just lurk, learn, often nod sagely and sometimes feel like throwing the iPad. I was trying to copy what Buffy said at 19.20 but my iPad is not playing, but her point about female biology and shame really resonates.
I was musing on this subject this morning on a long journey and a strong memory for me is winning a swimming race, and getting out of the pool, in front of the whole school, to suddenly realise blood was streaming down my legs - I was 11, in my first term at senior school.
Then there was the time our neighbour commented on how fast I was growing up, whilst ogling my newly emerging breasts - about the same age I guess.
Oh and when aged 21 my new husband raped me and when I went to see a solicitor he told me it wasn't illegal, and not only that it wasn't even grounds for divorce - unless there was some aggravating factor maybe, like anal rape or repeatedly raping me during menstruation. Then it might be unreasonable behaviour.
These, plus risking my life to have children, giving birth, going through the menopause, mean I know I'm a woman, I don't 'feel like' one.

No actually i don't think there is any meaningful overlap. I also think by only drawing the lines of distinction at innate gender we are opening the door to further essentialised narratives being seen as credible.

The Rachel Dolezal fiasco was at first funny quickly became terrifying, Rachel felt black she 'performed' blackness. White supremacy has long used 'innate' differences to justify exploitation, rape and murder of black bodies. Black women 'mature' faster so raping a black child is seen as more acceptable, black bodies are hypersexualised, ridiculed and expendable.

When we give these essentialised identities credence we make peoples lives unsafe.

Oh well. I'm coming back to this thread after being away for a day and... What a surprise that it has turned out exactly the same way that every single feminist thread has turned out in the past couple of years. Busy talking about one single person's struggles that have nothing to do with the struggles of the rest of us

The fear of smells, too.

Onthescrapheap So sorry for what you suffered
Your ex was an evil subhuman bastard and the law was useless for you.

I've humiliating memories of period leaking too and I've just about finished (I hope) the menopause.

i was called a radical feminist the other day by a friend, she said this because i often say "i bet if i was a man he wouldn't act like that"
but this statement is true.
I believe in certain situation if i was male certain males wouldn't (for instance) tailgate me.
Also if i was a police officer in a police car they wouldnt do it either.
I just dont like people who act differently to others, you can control your actions depending on who it is you need to control them for which makes you a coward.

slug - Stick around these parts of MN and you will here lots more about how Ego perceives the world.

"Your comments add nothing to the debate about the things transwomen and women have in common"

That is not the debate, at least on this thread.

I was also interested to hear ego's experience and sad to learn that she is confused and unhappy in her body.
Some earlier parts of the thread were very crappy and pointless, but the last part has been a good exchange of views.

Actually, thinking about what women and transwomen might have in common....

Biology? No, we obviously don't have that in common.

Shared experience of growing up as a girl and socialisation? Being groped, leered at, treated inferior to boys, having to look "pretty" & expected to be a soft-spoken homemaker, attacked/protected/belonging to father or husband, definitely socialised differently to boys? No, we definitely don't have that in common.

Given that transwomen's claim to womanhood is "I feel like a woman" which is not shared by many (most?) women....

I can't think of much that women and transwomen have in common, actually. Make-up, long hair, and skirts?

I don't deny or minimise your struggles and problems, Ego. I'm sure that they are overwhelming and terrifying. However, I really REALLY don't see how they can ever overlap with my struggles.

"I could say a hell of a lot about you on MN. A hell of a lot."

Please share. You have already lied twice* just on this thread. Why stop now? Let it all rip, Ego.

• (1) Claiming that I repeatedly called you "he", which never happened. (2) Claiming that you have only ever had one post deleted on MN, whereas you had at least 7 deleted under one nickname only (see my earlier posts on this thread).

give it a rest

yes be quiet woman