To dislike "Radical Feminism"

[InternetPerson]

I've got nothing against feminists that fight for womens rights and genuinely want the best the best for everyone and don't hate anyone, but "RadFems" tend to be full of bitterness and hatred. And I'm not just talking about kids, these are high profile, intelligent women with power and influence. Do you think it's unreasonable to dislike something where most people think men are inherantly evil and to be feared? Or do you think their hatred is fair and we should respect them for their good work in trying to make humans hate eath other even more?

Like, I said, I have nothing against Feminism, it's done a lot of great work down the years and still does, but "Rad Fem" and "Feminism" are too completly different things in my opinion. Is this a wrong conclusion?

AIBU?

Thanks for that post, Big. You have articulated something that I considered posting earlier but couldn't manage to put it all in writing and take the time to articulate it properly.

I'd add that the default is white, heterosexual, middle class male. If a WHMC male says something it's seen as his opinion alone, and not a reflection on any other WHMC male. However, women are seen as the spokespeople for all other women. So, if one woman shares an opinion, all other women are expected to explain or defend why she feels like that. Or go into long explanations about why they don't agree.

I would imagine the same is true for transwomen - you aren't an individual, but a member of some kind of hive mind, like the Borg.

I agree bigchoc. I sometimes struggle to see what the overlap between trans womens issues and cis women's issues is, outside male violence

our conditioning is from when we are young children, how girls are sexualised and oppressed from a young age so it is not just womens issues its girls issues too

though I refuse to use the term cis I was a girl and now I am a woman not a cis woman, being a women (or girl) is nothing to be ashamed of

I am not saying it is

but I have done the unspeakable I have just spoken about women

tut tut

And neither is being a straight, white, middle class male. We all - yes even they - experience pressures, expectations and problems created by society, and that is why people need to be able to meet together as separate groups to discuss and address these issues at times, to the exclusion of those who have not lived that experience … not least women born as girls.

I wanted to make the statement about women only and you had to add to that

I pointed out in previous post when women do we are always told in some way or another to think of others and that is what you did

its tiresome, not you personally its just tiresome that is what we always have thrown back at us

One common thing is being forced to fight one another for concessions and special status rather than have men share power and opportunity with all equally. So women are expected to compete with any and all other disadvantaged groups (which are usually minority groups) for space and status, and indeed, often seen as or referred to as a minority group, not seen as half the population automatically entitled to equal consideration.

but you proved me right

It has to be addressed a woman makes a statement she has to be reminded of her place

you don't get it do you?

Trans women can have a lived experience that is more similar to women than it is to a man.

No doubt… but they cannot have the lived experience of being born female and you cannot overlook the long list of issues that relate to a woman's biology (as posted by BigChoc) and not see that - whilst transwomen and women can certainly be strong allies - there are times when it's not appropriate to ignore the distinction.

Sometimes numbers matter. It is very difficult to see why the systematic oppression of 51% of the population should be put aside in order to address first the oppression or discrimination directed at a much much smaller group.

Of course, it isn't always that simple, the issues intersect, even tangle up.

Cross-post, slugs!