To dislike "Radical Feminism"

[InternetPerson]

I've got nothing against feminists that fight for womens rights and genuinely want the best the best for everyone and don't hate anyone, but "RadFems" tend to be full of bitterness and hatred. And I'm not just talking about kids, these are high profile, intelligent women with power and influence. Do you think it's unreasonable to dislike something where most people think men are inherantly evil and to be feared? Or do you think their hatred is fair and we should respect them for their good work in trying to make humans hate eath other even more?

Like, I said, I have nothing against Feminism, it's done a lot of great work down the years and still does, but "Rad Fem" and "Feminism" are too completly different things in my opinion. Is this a wrong conclusion?

AIBU?

I just did it disco and am none the wiser. Apparently I'm a social liberal radical.

Oh Lonny, you just had to be different, didn't you?

I don't like radical feminism because of its treatment of Erin Pizzey and the denial that men are abused.

"So yeah frankly I don't give a shit that radical "sounds" scary. If people can't be bothered to find out what radical actually means nor what radical feminism actually is, that's on them, not me."

Exactly. Plus feminism doesn't exist to be popular. Anything that threatens to change the status quo will be seen as a threat to some people and that's fine.

what is wrong with the word radical?
it just means "to the roots" or somesuch, as in radish.

This is a nice explanation of how radical and radish are linked

Oh Tree, that would be terrible indeed, if it were true.

I've never seen a radfem ever suggest that men aren't abused. If anyone did, I'd be the first to call them out on it. And, if we're quite honest, Erin Pizzey gives more than she gets, now that she writes for misogyny central.

FEMinists tend to keep issues predominantly affecting women front and central, so the abuse of men isn't our primary concern. I'm not sure if that's what you're alluding to in your post? Is it really so bad that women want to look after women? After all, I don't see any men's rights dudes campaigning for women's issues, or in fact men's issues, but again, that's for another conversation.

I've never considered if I am a radical feminist or just a feminist as at the end of the day it is just words and there is no legal definition of these terms. We are probably all on the side of wanting fairness and equality for women. I do think achieving equality for men too such as equal rights to take leave when a baby comes or do the cleaning and the like also helps women's rights ultimately so I've never been against helping that cause but I agree that there are lots of wrongs on this planet and sticking to one - the big injustices against women - is a good plan for many feminists. My heart might start to bleed for men when they own 1% not their current 99% of the world's wealth.

It seems a little odd to criticise Autumn for raising the issue of radical feminism's relationship with /views on organised religion given the pages of derailment by "hilarious" vegetable jokes.

I don't agree that organised religion is a symptom, not a cause- although I can see if one called oneself a feminist and were a member of certain organised religions it would be necessary to believe that to square the contradiction between the 2 beliefs.

The religion I know most about Catholicism. It's fine to be a feminist and decide abortion and artificial contraception is not for you.

But how one can call oneself a feminist and sign up to an organisation with an entirely male based power structure which seeks to impose its rules on women's reproductive rights is beyond me.

And an organisation which seeks, and in some countries succeeds, to impose its views as part of the law of the land, regardless of whether women follow that faith. At least in most of western Europe (with the exception of Eire) we have the luxury of secular law-makers who ignore it.

How does radical feminism deal with this? Or is it not an issue given the pasting Autumn got for raising it?

You think law makers in Ireland are not secular?

Abbie You must know the Catholic Church in Eire has far more influence over law-makers than in other Western European countries. The Irish law makers are secular but are influenced by the Church in a way British or Scottish or French law-makers aren't.

But we'll done on avoiding any of the other points I raised.

No Ego I meant the technique, which only ever seems to be used on feminist threads, of "hilarious " jokes used to mock a poster with whom other posters disagree whilst keeping the mocking just on the right side of personal attacks.

Well we've already established I don't know if I'm rad or not Lass but it seems fairly clear to me that most organised religions are deeply unfeminist and very much part of the patriarchy. Personally I make a distinction between 'faith' and 'organised religion' - so I could easily believe someone can square a belief in a deity with their feminism.

My reading of Autumn's comments was she was proposing a complete dismantling of many religions. Which seemed pretty radical for someone who doesn't think radical change is a good idea.

Also thread started at peak time and OP was very definitely goady. OP hasn't really been back and the thread has moved on, but let's put the radish comments in context...

Have you actually read Autumn's posts, ALass?

The pasting she got preceded her stab at religion out of the blue, and had far more to do with her complete misunderstanding of the meaning of the word 'radical', insisting "radical = unbalanced" and "anything radical means the the person who supports this is no longer rational".

I don't think many radical feminists are into organised religion tbh. The ones I know are atheist/agnostic - or if they do have spiritual beliefs, dislike organised religion as an institution. Of course, the very roots of religion aren't always misogynistic, and don't necessarily have god as a 'He' - but worship the Earth Goddess, so a 'She' Autumn just raised religion whilst flailing around for something to beat radical feminists up with - it was a total straw man argument.

We have to respect that some feminists have religious views, or the alternative is to basically exclude Muslims, Catholics and most other religions.
If religion had never been invented and someone came up today with the Bible or the Koran, I expect they'd be put in a padded cell.
We respect religious views, but always refuse to accept that they should trump womens' rights, in any country.

That might have been true forty or fifty years ago, Lass, but simply isn't the case now.

Oh - and 'Eire' is a term usually associated with snooty British toffs. It invariably gets the hackles up. Just use 'Ireland' or 'the Republic of Ireland'.

Some of Autumn's particularly incoherent posts were done in the wee small hours - so perhaps it was the talking but her posts made little sense - s/he just wanted to barge around calling radical feminists names, whilst having little basic knowledge of what radical feminism actually is, I think. It's not unusual.

I've never asked radfems about their religious beliefs - I consider it irrelevant. But my experience has been similar to UndertheGreenwoodTree.

Most social organisations are male dominated in origin. Religions and particularly the Catholic Church tend to be very conservative and slow changing.
Religion is just another formal organisation that has to change. And one where feminists within are working on.
It would be interesting to see a case study of an ordained female Anglican minister convert to Catholicism. Married ministers have become catholic priests if I'm not mistaken, so it would really be interesting to see pressure from an ordained woman putting pressure on the Catholic Church.
Maybe if female followers all leave the church. :)