They're not refugees, we're being invaded

[goonthenflameme]

I admit, the Syrians have got it bad. There is a war and those boys who haven't been shot by ISIL are being conscripted by the President.

But if life is that bad, why do they only want to go to Germany and if they can't go then then they'll go back to Syria.

Why are we now seeing people from Kazakstan joining the throngs?

I agree that people from Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria need help. But the thougsands and thousands of people coming through can't all be refugees in dire need of help if they are so picky as to where they will live.

They're invading Europe. And we are letting them. What's going to happen in 20 years? Will Christianity and western ways be swept under the carpet?

[PisforPeter]

Yes but they don't get free housing, healthcare & education..

[WorzelsCornyBrows]

I don't think anyone should be using Christianity as an excuse not to help. It's not very Christian.

[merrymouse]

Can we start saying hordes please? Sorry to be a pedantic twat but I've read the word hoards so many times this week it's starting to give me a nervous

Perhaps if you were reading a little less about hoards/hordes you might be a little less anxious about their imminent arrival.

[thehypocritesoaf]

I was responding to a pp assertion that it doesn't matter if Islam becomes as big as Christianity in Europe and that western ways are just binge drinking and apple products.

[Lweji]

The Catholic Church is encouraging members to help and receive refugees.
IME it's people who actually don't care about Christianity who are most concerned.

[LeaveMyWingsBehindMe]

Well when people will not be drawn on finite numbers and they will not be drawn on a discussion about why it is not only right but ESSENTIAL to follow proper protocol and procedure to make sure that we are taking the most vulnerable people for the right reasons, then they may as well be saying 'just fling open the doors.'

There really is no place for sentimental knee jerking here. What you need in a crisis is a level head and some clear thinking. Remember Little Red Riding Hood nursing the big bad wolf dressed as poorly grandmother?

[LeaveMyWingsBehindMe]

forgive me merry but you seem to be on the same thread too ….

[merrymouse]

Oh & free healthcare because the first thing they do on arrival is register with a GP

Yes and they get a free house and their choice of school, even though they are all healthy young men with no children.

[Lweji]

If they are young men with no children, why do they need a school or even take too much time from a gp?

[LeaveMyWingsBehindMe]

Lweji I'd love to know the figures for how many of them are people who gained British citizenship and then left again, once that passport was in their hands. The best insurance policy in the world, isn't it? They can come back at any time, any of those people can. The pensioners in Spain who get ill or run out of money, the people working abroad for a few years who always intend to come back home because they don't have citizen status elsewhere...the amount of actual permanent emigrants is probably quite small in the scheme of things. And that doesn't factor in the population boom that will come from taking immigrants who culturally have much larger families than we do.

And if the people leaving the UK are the people who are well enough qualified and educated to make a decent living somewhere else without the safety net of the welfare state behind them, and the ones who are arriving aren't, what then?

[Lweji]

And pretty sure they won't get a whole house, unless they then bring along their mothers, wives, sometimes children, etc

[howtorebuild]

We aren't taking the fit young men, they are going to Germany. We are taking the vulnerable.

[LeaveMyWingsBehindMe]

I would much rather a culture of acceptance and the willingness to help those who need it than an island of small minded, selfish people intent on protecting their modern day castles.

Yes that's a lovely sentiment. I take it you don't bother to lock your door at night in case homeless people need to sleep on your sofa, use your bathroom and help themselves to your food? After all, they need it, don't they? Let's not be small minded about clinging onto what's ours.

[Lweji]

You do need to read about it.
Syria population growth is at Europe levels. Immigrants tend to have fewer children when integrated.
And we are talking about 5k per year, as Cameron proposed. That's tiny.

[Bakeoffcake]

Haha "they" are invading Europe!!

Oh yes, we've never invade a country have we

We're getting our just desserts and it's our duty to help these people.

[merrymouse]

Lweji, that was a feeble attempt at sarcasm on my part - I doubt that healthy young single men have much needs or schools or the NHS.

leave my wings, as far as I can see this thread started late last night.

[LeaveMyWingsBehindMe]

But how long will that integration take, and can we support them all while we wait four generations for it to happen?

What if they don't integrate? There are ghettos or enclaves of Orthodox Jews and Muslims now where 7 or eight children or more is the norm, some of them have been here for several generations but they have chosen not to integrate and their 'home' culture is very much still dominant. That's fine, there haven't been that many of them up until now, so it's been containable and affordable. Maybe going forward over the next 50 years not quite so much.

[LittleLionMansMummy]

No LeaveMyWings I support my local homeless shelter and soup kitchen by giving food and clothes etc. Are you always this literal?

[merrymouse]

Well when people will not be drawn on finite numbers and they will not be drawn on a discussion about why it is not only right but ESSENTIAL to follow proper protocol and procedure to make sure that we are taking the most vulnerable people for the right reasons, then they may as well be saying 'just fling open the doors.'

Who are these 'people'?

The average person will not have the information to tell you - what are you expecting?

Do you want David Cameron to give you minute to minute updates on his decision making process? I think he has an email address you can contact somewhere - hang on a sec.

[merrymouse]

email.number10.gov.uk

[LeaveMyWingsBehindMe]

Ah well if you help out at soup kitchens then you'll understand perfectly well that it's an analogy that demonstrates the difference between having a sensible plan to help the right people, in the right numbers, in the right, measured way, versus just leaving open your front door and saying 'help yourself' at great risk to your own security and your own wellbeing.

[beaucoupdemojo]

merrymouse when I talk about fundamental rights and freedoms that this country holds dear, it has bugger all to do with Christianity and everything to do with the equality of women, the right to be gay, not blaming rape victims for what has happened to them. Not all of these rights have been long held in the UK and we still have quite some way to go. Which is why I have deep concerns about importing vast numbers of people whose cultures don't share these values. Europe is better than these peoples countries of origin because we've made it better - it didnt happen by itself. I dont want to throw it away by not knowing who is here or their aims.

[mimishimmi]

Families on both my sides became impoverished by WW2 (we owned shops etc on one side of it) and terrified of the people who not so mysteriously had a really huge influx of money that we realised was achieved by the use of slave labour and war in Europe. Everyone was thinking 'we're next' and was pretty much treated this way by those involved. The response of my parents generation was to become super and overtly religious thinking that was what these brutes wanted and would keep them safe. Which it wasn't - they could care less about religion except that the religious breed more and produce useful cannon fodder. Which became very apparent with the kind of 'church militant theology' which infected the churches in the late 80s/90s. The response of my generation was to stop having children or not so many - partly due to fear and mostly due to economics/response to mass immigration.

Read 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' (published September 2000) and articles concerning the Middle East in the Foreign Policy/Foreign Affairs journals from 1997 onwards. The total destruction of the Middle East and the use of Westerners to achieve that has been on the cards for a very long time.

They have nothing in store for us except a bullet. It isn't, and never was, the immigrants trying to destroy 'our way of life'. It's war criminals.

[LeaveMyWingsBehindMe]

who are these 'people'?

They are the people on MN, who in the words of Olivepip who said it best on another thread,

'...have no empirical experience of [the people from] these regions making emotive knee-jerk pronouncements and slamming those who advise caution as racist.'

[merrymouse]

Europe has not always been better and it certainly wasn't better when European countries made a habit of 'othering' people from different cultures.