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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To request that all parents please ask

253 replies

SunshineAndShadows · 22/09/2015 20:20

... Before you let your child loose on a strange dog!

I was just out with my two hounds, both friendly beasts but bouncy when out walking and neither enjoy contact with children as they've had unpleasant DC experiences and will avoid them as much as they can.

Both dogs off lead but under control by me when I see a nearby mum release her toddler (very small, no older than 2) in my direction. He toddles forwards and I put a hand on each dog's collar so that I have full control (no time to clip on leads) and mum cheers him on.

I eventually have to do a crazy toddler knee block whilst holding both dogs and saying 'no' very firmly, which stops him in his tracks. Mum then comes over and stands there expectantly. I was wordless with astonishment and eventually she pulled him away saying 'oh dear, the doggies don't want to play'.

I felt like asking her if she also let him play with knives and electric sockets (but of course I didn't)

AIBU to expect that my dogs and I should be able to walk peacefully without attacks from uncontrolled children?

OP posts:
Original poster
SunshineAndShadows · 23/09/2015 14:17

Well apparently you're the judgement police Lovely

In the situation I described, your criticism is only of my speechlessness in the face of such blinding stupidity?

Yeah that was definitely the most significant problem Confused

OP posts:
TenForward82 · 23/09/2015 14:20

So lovely, if I jump on your next thread and start talking about something irrelevant, you won't mind then? Cool, good to know.

I notice you didn't answer my question.

carabos · 23/09/2015 14:21

Picking up on stillyummy's post, you wouldn't believe the things that people do around horses, up to and including setting their dogs off "to race" the horse. I've lost count of the people who have flapped things in my horse's face, shouted "giddy up" and other helpful comments, tried to race us on bikes, tried to persuade us to race on pavements, asked if I would take their toddler up onto the saddle with me for a ride, asked if they could have a ride themselves and, best of all, closed a gate or refused to open a gate that they're standing in front of. And yes, I can open a gate without assistance while mounted, but seriously why would you close a door in someone's face?

Just the other day I was riding through the park that belongs to our livery yard. It has a footpath running through it and a couple of gates. As I approached one of the gates, a mum and dad were also approaching. The dad was on one side with one child and mum on the other with the other child. Neither parent moved, and dad kept his hand on the gate. I stood back as I didn't want to crowd them. Stand off ensues. Mum crying I'm stuck, dad standing like a lemon. I explained that I was going through the gate and would wait for mum to go through first. No, she didn't want to do that, she didn't want the horse behind her (in a big field). I said ok I'll go through first then. No, dad didn't want that, he wanted mum to come through and me to stay where I was as it would be safer if we weren't all in the field at the same time. It's a horse not a hungry lion ffs.

People are weird around animals - fact. Hmm

LovelyFriend · 23/09/2015 14:35

You did directly seek my opinion (in itself a judgement) by posting this thread Sunshine did you not? Perhaps next time try clarifying in your OP that you only want "the most significant problem" discussed (good luck with that).

Actually I did call the parent "Stupid" as her behaviour certainly was. AFAIK calling someone "stupid" (which I don't do very often) is both a criticism AND a judgement.

Really though, why didn't you speak up to warn her/tell her to keep her kid away? Or do you think toddlers with stupid parents deserve to be attacked by your nervous/anxious dogs?

You have a duty to protect your dogs and also to keep them away from other people. Parents have a duty to protect their children. As a dog owner you also have a duty to protect any children your dogs come into contact with from your dogs (this in turn will also protect your dogs).

Some people are stupid AND parents.

Some people are stupid AND dog owners.
Some people are stupid AND parents AND dog owners.
This cannot come as a surprise to you?

Would a Venn diagram help?

TenForward82 · 23/09/2015 14:36

Or do you think toddlers with stupid parents deserve to be attacked by your nervous/anxious dogs?

Now you're just being daft. Please.

Booboostwo · 23/09/2015 14:53

YANatallY. All DCs should be taught to ask the owner if they can pet the dog then ask the dog if it wants to be petted (hand out for dog to sniff, if dog moves head or body away leave the dog alone) and respect a refusal from either, the same way they should be taught how to cross roads, how to swim etc.

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/09/2015 15:03

DD has been taught to ask the owner, then 'ask' the dog (by doing the palm down, sniff test). She did this perfectly yesterday.

However, the odd time, we have asked the owner, they've said to pet and the dog is clearly not happy. DD knows, at 4, that you don't pet a nervous, shying away, whimpering, ears back, tail between legs dog. Why do the owners insist, "he's fine, just pet him"? People who are so irresponsible with their dogs' cues, shouldn't have dogs IMO.

Original poster
SunshineAndShadows · 23/09/2015 15:15

I assume Lovely that you've either not bothered to read the thread. Or you're just not very good at absorbing information. You've certainly not managed to explain despite me asking several times how your suggestion of keeping my dogs on the lead rather than having my hands directly on them would actually have improved the situation at all?

I'll break it down into small steps and then perhaps you can kindly critique my spur of the moment, unplanned behaviour, in a situation you did not observe of have any direct knowledge of, and despite me explaining my actions several times already (yawn).

  1. I am walking my dogs off lead and under control next to a car park
  2. Mum and small toddler unexpectedly appear from a side path about 2 metres ahead of me, mum turns toddler towards me and sets him off towards my dogs
  3. My priority is to have my dogs under complete control so they don't move towards the child - I call my dogs to me put down my bags and grab their collars, assuming that the mother isn't an idiot and will grab her child (clearly my first mistake)
  4. When I turn around the child is pretty much upon me - I block him with my leg and shout 'no' (I'm pretty sure that's a word, and it sends a pretty clear message so not sure why you're repeatedly criticising me for saying nothing)
  5. The child comprehends and stops. I'm struggling to find the words to explain why sending your unaccompanied 2 year old across a car park to pat two strange dogs is not a great idea, in words that are simple enough for idiots to understand, i.e. speechless as described several times earlier (is no one else bored of this yet??).
  6. Mum takes child and leaves

Or do you think toddlers with stupid parents deserve to be attacked by your nervous/anxious dogs?

Clearly. Of course all of my behaviours and actions above were geared towards this suggested outcome. Dammit I failed. Must try harder!

You have a duty to protect your dogs and also to keep them away from other people....As a dog owner you also have a duty to protect any children your dogs come into contact with from your dogs (this in turn will also protect your dogs).

Gee. Thanks Captain Obvious!
Again if you read my posts you'll see that is actually what I did, so the likelihood is that I'm aware of that.

OP posts:
Brioche201 · 23/09/2015 16:38

where on earth do I say I let my dogs who are likely to bite children off lead?

here

I was just out with my two hounds, both friendly beasts but bouncy...both dogs off lead.

are you telling me they won't snap when they feel threatened.

The jist of your Op is that a child should be the one restrained not your flipping dogs.

TenForward82 · 23/09/2015 16:44

Maybe you should look up "bouncy" in the dictionary? Also maybe "friendly". And maybe "how" "to" and "read".

Yes, the child should not have been sent towards a couple of unfamiliar dogs (whether they were on leads on not is irrelevant, the kid walked up to her), glad you got the "gist" of the OP.

TenForward82 · 23/09/2015 16:45

Whoops, italic fail.

Songofsixpence · 23/09/2015 16:53

YANBU

My children have never been allowed to approach random dogs without checking with the owner and me first. They know how to approach a dog, what to look out for with a dogs' body language so it always surprises me that some children just charge up to other dogs.

We have a super friendly dog, he loves kids and fuss and attention and will fling himself on the ground at the feet of anyone who gives him attention, roll on to his back and wave his legs in the air.

He also does this weird smiley/winky thing, which i think is called an appeasement gesture, but it just looks downright odd

I trust him to a certain extent, but he is a dog. Someone might accidentally tread on his tail, take him by surprise, anything. He's not a machine

We were in the vet waiting room a little while ago, dog hates the vet, he was clearly unhappy and anxious but a young girl of about 5 I think kept trying to make a fuss of him. I was polite and patiently explained why she needed to leave the dog alone at first and then a very firm no when she persisted. The Dad just sat there the whole time and when I asked the Dad to keep his child away I got a mouthful off him. He then went and complained to the receptionist. The receptionist was actually a lot less polite to him than I was. Madness.

Original poster
SunshineAndShadows · 23/09/2015 17:05

Right Brioche so you've interpreted

I was just out with my two hounds, both friendly beasts but bouncy

as

my dogs are likely to bite children

You do realise how ludicrous that is don't you?

The jist of your Op is that a child should be the one restrained not your flipping dogs

Yes that's right. Because both of my dogs are well behaved and were under control. The child was not.

Why should I be inconvenienced, and my dogs stressed, because of someone else's idiotic lack of parenting? Its impolite if not plain stupid. Or do you believe that parents can do no wrong in any situation?

OP posts:
Original poster
SunshineAndShadows · 23/09/2015 17:06

Thanks Song it was exactly that sort of situation - I feel your pain!

OP posts:
DepecheNO · 23/09/2015 17:21

I still have scars on the back of my head from swinging round sharpish to avoid a friend's dog when he went for me. I've had dogs and am good with dogs - the family encouraged us to play with him when they knew he was dangerous. Anyone who lets their child think it's okay to approach a strange dog without asking the owner, or puts a child who doesn't understand this in a situation where they might be harmed by a dog, is being VVVU.

Agree with a PP that both sides need to train their charges not to run over or otherwise restrain them!

Lurkedforever1 · 23/09/2015 18:35

I'm getting the impression brioche is one of those parents. You know the type who start hollering 'get your dog on a lead' from across a field, when said dog is absolutely nowhere near them and close to you, and showing zero interest in the shrieky people.

ChickenTikkaMassala · 23/09/2015 18:45

OP YANBU but some posters here will try to twist your words as you've found out as they are determined to make out that you are wrong Hmm

I don't get how anybody can interpret your post as saying your dogs are likely to bite etc.

Gileswithachainsaw · 23/09/2015 18:54

I'm getting the impressionbriocheis one ofthoseparents. You know the type who start hollering 'get your dog on a lead' from across a field, when said dog is absolutely nowhere near them and close to you, and showing zero interest in the shrieky people

i think you are right. the dogs do not sound out of control in the slightest. and is a ridiculous overreaction.

RaspberryOverload · 23/09/2015 19:08

I don't like dogs, so I'm getting that out first.

However, I can read, and can clearly see that the OP had control of her dogs, and the mother of the child was stupid.

I don't see anywhere that the dogs were likely to bite, just that they don't like children.

A child appearing at a distance of about 2 metres certainly wouldn't give much time to clip on leads when you also got to put bags down to do it.

A hand on the collar much better, which is what the OP did!

I taught my kids to ask first and be respectful of a dog's personal space, in the same way as they would respect a person's space.

shadowfax07 · 23/09/2015 19:21

OP, YANBU at all. I've got a dog who is very friendly to adults and older children, but is wary of younger children. He's never shown any aggression towards them, he prefers to run away from them. Unfortunately he's a very cute spaniel, so he does get a lot of attention. I've had to shout no and body block children from running up to him when he's been on lead too.

The last time it happened, we were on a footbridge going back to the carpark and he was on a loose lead between me and the railings. A family were walking towards me and the girls shouted "Dog" and ran towards him. Like you, I didn't have much time to react. And I always thank those children who ask if they can approach him.

Doublebubblebubble · 23/09/2015 19:31

Yanbu. I am terrified of all dogs (sorry I just am) and my DD is obsessed with them. So from about as soon as she was able to walk I have drilled into her that she is to ask the owner if she can pet the dog. She is not to pet a dog that she doesn't know and/or hasn't asked permission to pet. We always ask from a reasonable amount of distance -just in case (I don't want to inflict my phobia on my child so I do try to look happy as she is petting them.... I had a very bad experience with a Alsatian when I was very young) I always take DDS hand as she's asking as well just in case I need to put myself in front of her... I do always say "that was a nice dog" even if I was fucking terrified and we thank the owner.

Brioche201 · 23/09/2015 21:51

*Right Brioche so you've interpreted

I was just out with my two hounds, both friendly beasts but bouncy

as

my dogs are likely to bite children*

No I have interpreted

'neither enjoy contact with children as they've had unpleasant DC experiences ' as 'they are nervous around children and might snap'

Brioche201 · 23/09/2015 21:53

..but as it goes , I do think dogs should be on a lead at all times except on private land (with no public right of way) belonging to them or with permission of the landowner.

Lurkedforever1 · 23/09/2015 22:00

Oh well, as the law doesn't think all dogs should be on leads because of some people's ridiculous opinions, based on their own lack of knowledge, it doesn't matter.

Lurkedforever1 · 23/09/2015 22:04

Oh and the 'private land with no right of way' is even more of a hilarious stipulation. I can see loads of farmers ditching their working dogs in an effort to make life more pleasant for some deluded townie.