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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Asking for my money back from cleaner?

121 replies

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 20/09/2015 21:09

We have had the same cleaner for 7 years and introduced her to various groups ends whom she cleans for too as originally she was very reliable

In the last year or so, she has become much Jess reliable. As I'm a bit of a soft touch, I've tended to just let things go and probably been the client most taken advantage of. For example, I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old and am 32 weeks pregnant so getting out of the house is a bit of a mission. However, I do go out when cleNer comes to let her have the run of the place and make it easier. On numerous ocassions, I've just been strapping everyone into the car to see her disappearing into the neighbour's that she cleans for. When I ask her what's happening, she'll say that she hadn't been able to clean for them that week so was just going to do that now and asks if she can come to us another day. I have always said yes but been a bit pissed off as I've had no notice what so ever and if I hadn't bumped into her then she just wouldn't have turned up.

Anyway......we went away on holiday for two weeks and got home yesterday to find that the cleaning money had been taken but no cleaning at all had been done. I texted to find out what had happened and cleaner said she was confused and thought I had wanted her to have a two week break between coming but had come in for 1 week. It just didn't make sense as my text was explicitly clear plus it was obvious that she hadn't done any cleaning at all. I have texted back to say I was struggling to see what cleaning had been done but was she coming this week? No response at all.

DH has said we need someone reliable and I agree so we've decided to look for a new cleaner. I just want the keys back but DH thinks I should also ask for one week of money back. We don't think cleaner has done any cleaning at all but by her own admission, she only came for one week.

I just feel a bit awkward about asking for the money and just want to draw a line under things as quickly as possible. I'm actually not liking forward to saying we don't need her anymore and feel like I need to do it face to face as a text would be a bit off. AIBU to ask for the money back? Also, do I need to end things face to face?

OP posts:

Andylion · 22/09/2015 18:26

I'm wondering about saying that I think there's no point coming into clean due to builders and I'll be in touch once things have settled down but understand that she may very well have found a new job.

What if she asks you for another reference because she thinks you think she is a great cleaner? Unlikely, I know, but, I think you should be straight with her.

Rachel0Greep · 22/09/2015 19:34

Has she responded to the texts you sent to her, after you came back from holidays?

Original poster

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 22/09/2015 20:00

Nope! Maybe we're sacked!

But, just for the sake of being clear, I thought I'd better send my text

OP posts:

Original poster

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 22/09/2015 21:27

I have sent the text!

Thank you for all the advice. I felt sad - as though I was splitting up with someone - but now it's a big weight off my mind

DH has sagely pointed out that I am mourning the cleaner she was not who she is now. Which was quite profound!

OP posts:

saveforthat · 22/09/2015 22:05

I was in this situation. I think the reason it's harder than talking to an employee at work is that I never saw her so when things weren't cleaned properly I would leave a little note and this made me feel a bit bossy and guilty. I let her go in the end and now do it myself.

DanglyEarrings · 22/09/2015 22:50

Tooold not sure where you read I don't like self employed cleaners, we are these! If someone is set up to trade legitimately I am all for and DO support them all over the UK as it happens, that is my role.

I DO NOT like 'cash in hand' cleaners ie those who are not declaring their income via HMRC ie working under the radar and ILLEGALLY.

This is dishonest and if someone will do this then DON"T give them a key to your house!! Obviously! Only give honest people a key to your house or this can unfortunately and commonly be the outcome due to their lack of moral compass, that is what we in the industry mean by 'other' we mean illegal traders not registered for business!

I do agree with you about agencies though, I'm not a fan of these, we are a private company and employ all our staff directly. I don't think agencies can offer a high level of service given they do not directly employ their staff.

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou · 22/09/2015 22:52

Maybe because you are making a huge deal out of a very simple issue?

I wouldn't say this. I'd say it was because the OP is judging someone who obviously has few scruples than she has, by her own standards.

It's not the OPs fault, it's the lazy, dishonest cleaners.

Autumnnights1 · 22/09/2015 22:55

And i would say that the OP is rather precious. The cleaner worked for you for 7 years and you probably did take advantage of normal cleaning and stuck a number of deep cleaning things on her.

Just stop being such a drama lama and ask her to drop your keys in the door and thank your lucky stars that she worked for you for that long.

Autumnnights1 · 22/09/2015 22:56

You will not find her again, believe me you wont.

NeuNewNouveau · 22/09/2015 23:05

So what did you actually text in the end? And has she replied?

MinesAPintOfTea · 22/09/2015 23:08

Dangly there is dreadful selection bias in what you say. Someone who is employing an independent cleaner who they like and works efficiently etc is hardly likely to look up bigger companies

NeuNewNouveau · 22/09/2015 23:08

Ps have been in the same boat, agreed extra hours while I was away. She did half her usual hours and took money for the extra hours. I can see from my alarm exactly how long she was there so know she didn't do the hours. I wussed out and just told her we had a lot going on and didn't need her any more.

Original poster

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 22/09/2015 23:12

autumn - what are you wittering on about now? There is absolutely no basis for you to say that took advantage of the cleaner or expected her to do any deep cleaning. I'm quite happy to never "find her again" either so your doom like predictions are actually quite a relief - although I'm not sure that's exactly the effect you're looking for

To be fair to our ex-cleaner, I have no idea whether she was self-assessing to HMRC. Just because someone is paid in cash doesn't mean they're not declaring that income.

Will start looking for another cleaner

OP posts:

DanglyEarrings · 22/09/2015 23:17

Mines we are not a big company but a small private one - but LEGAL

I'm all for individual solo cleaners but NOT ones trading illegally I just don't see how this can be misunderstood!

I'm not against solo cleaners who work legally declaring themselves and their income with HMRC and getting themselves insurance to cover their clients and acting accordingly as a professional with their clients' best interests at heart, just as i once was.

I am against the fraud that is 'cash-in-hand' 'non-taxpaying' cleaning which has bitten the OP and many many many others on the bum more times than I ever needed to hear about!

Original poster

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 22/09/2015 23:20

No reply to text

I wimped out somewhat and said that I hadn't heard from her so assumed she wouldn't be able to come this week. However, we had been thinking about things and the complexities the building work caused in that there was much reduced cleaning work to be done. We couldn't commit to paying for 5 hours a week when really we were only getting 1 hour of work. So, given the circumstances, we thought that now was a good time to part company.

Asked for keys back through the letter box this week. Didn't mention the money

I've thought about the reference point and, actually, I would just give an honest reference. Which I think the cleaner would know so I doubt I would be asked.

OP posts:

DanglyEarrings · 22/09/2015 23:22

OP - I get what you are saying about accepting cash within a leagaly declared business, we do ourselves on occasion, but for your own security I would not offer a solo cleaner cash payment simply to weed out the type who are not operating legally. I say this because of horror stories I hear all the time, it is an indicator of honesty that one operates within the law.

They will have everything in place for other payment too if all is above board and ask to see evidence of their insurance for peace of mind!

Original poster

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 22/09/2015 23:25

I don't know that my cleaner wasn't paying tax . I do feel that I have to be fair here. Paying cash to someone does not mean they are not declaring their income. My DH is ocassionally paid in cash by patients and would be quite offended at the suggestion that he automatically puts that straight in his pocket

What has bitten me in the bum is being too flexible and understanding and letting performance issues drift - hence I was seen as a soft touch. It's quite hard though as you've got someone in your house and you don't want to be barking orders as though the cleaner is a Victorian chamber maid. Plus you don't have the same performance management systems in place that are at work

OP posts:

Original poster

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 22/09/2015 23:27

Sorry - cross post dangly. I didn't see your last post before I posted mine!

OP posts:

DanglyEarrings · 22/09/2015 23:44

No problem Gobbolin I just mean it's a additional security measure to be CERTAIN they really are self-employed and not tax-dodgers. There are too many out there to risk it and they pull down the standards of the industry. If they INSIST on cash that's dubious so beware of these!

Any legitimate service would surely have their clients' best interests at heart and this lady did not which does all cleaning people a mis-service!

You should not need to leave instructions for a professional cleaner they should KNOW how to do things properly and usually bring all their equipment and chemicals with them so they can do the best job, they should do right by you on principle if they are a good service provider. All you need to do is set out the scope of the work at the quote and they give you a price for this work within a regular service, if you accept their price they should then take very good care of you and our property. This is a service level you should confidently expect and the service level of cleaner you had was so badly lacking I can hardly find the words ...

AyeAmarok · 22/09/2015 23:56

at whatever the hell Autumn is muttering on about.

OP, you've done the right thing although I'd have wanted to be more harsh in my text, but would wuss out like you did

Original poster

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/09/2015 20:09

My cleaner has now texted me to ask if I want her to come tomorrow and her husband has called me - I haven't answered

Have just resent my original text.

I'm going out tomorrow so not sure if she will turn up or not

OP posts:

InternationalEspionage · 24/09/2015 20:17

Did you change the locks yet?

Original poster

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/09/2015 21:17

No. I kind of thought that might not be needed but we'll have to now.

To be fair to cleaner, she has just texted and said she will put keys and money through the door. I've said not to worry about the money so hopefully I'll get the keys tomorrow. I'm out tomorrow but the builders/decorator will be here for at least another 4 -5 weeks so there will be people in the house etc

OP posts:

Bogeyface · 25/09/2015 00:25

I've said not to worry about the money

Really? I would just have texted back "Thank you"

DaemonPantalaemon · 25/09/2015 07:18

I've said not to worry about the money

Ha! Told you! The OP has not answered my question about race but there is definitely a racial issue here. I mean, the cleaner presents a solution, the only solution in fact, given that she has not been doing the work, but oh no, the OP still wrings her hands in an agony of conscience. I love the smell of middle class white guilt in the morning. Now, off you go to polish your halo, you saintly person you. You really have changed the world.

Sorry if I sound pissed off, and sorry to bang on a bit but this sort of thing really annoys me. We should judge all people by the same standards, not bend over backwards to accommodate people because you see them as "other". It is the same attitude that created the monstrosities of that Camila woman. She was seen as exotic and different, a white English woman in her situation would never have been allowed to get away with it. As a black woman, I find it really patronising, but people like the OP think this sort of thing is a good thing, and will never see it. Far from seeing others as equals, they actually see them as less than equals, and so treat them differently. Sigh.

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