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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Asking for my money back from cleaner?

121 replies

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 20/09/2015 21:09

We have had the same cleaner for 7 years and introduced her to various groups ends whom she cleans for too as originally she was very reliable

In the last year or so, she has become much Jess reliable. As I'm a bit of a soft touch, I've tended to just let things go and probably been the client most taken advantage of. For example, I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old and am 32 weeks pregnant so getting out of the house is a bit of a mission. However, I do go out when cleNer comes to let her have the run of the place and make it easier. On numerous ocassions, I've just been strapping everyone into the car to see her disappearing into the neighbour's that she cleans for. When I ask her what's happening, she'll say that she hadn't been able to clean for them that week so was just going to do that now and asks if she can come to us another day. I have always said yes but been a bit pissed off as I've had no notice what so ever and if I hadn't bumped into her then she just wouldn't have turned up.

Anyway......we went away on holiday for two weeks and got home yesterday to find that the cleaning money had been taken but no cleaning at all had been done. I texted to find out what had happened and cleaner said she was confused and thought I had wanted her to have a two week break between coming but had come in for 1 week. It just didn't make sense as my text was explicitly clear plus it was obvious that she hadn't done any cleaning at all. I have texted back to say I was struggling to see what cleaning had been done but was she coming this week? No response at all.

DH has said we need someone reliable and I agree so we've decided to look for a new cleaner. I just want the keys back but DH thinks I should also ask for one week of money back. We don't think cleaner has done any cleaning at all but by her own admission, she only came for one week.

I just feel a bit awkward about asking for the money and just want to draw a line under things as quickly as possible. I'm actually not liking forward to saying we don't need her anymore and feel like I need to do it face to face as a text would be a bit off. AIBU to ask for the money back? Also, do I need to end things face to face?

OP posts:
calzone · 20/09/2015 22:03

I think that as you are pregnant, you can be a wet blanket and call 'stressful' and get DH to sort it!!

featherandblack · 20/09/2015 22:12

I had a similar debacle. Eventually we realised that she had the right to some kind of notice pay so we let it go.

CactusAnnie · 20/09/2015 22:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DisappointedOne · 20/09/2015 22:17

She may make a copy of the key anyway. Change the locks.

areyoubeingserviced · 20/09/2015 22:20

Change the locks
Forget the money
Get rid of her

birdsdestiny · 20/09/2015 22:24

Get the key back first. I only ever use cleaning agencies so that someone else has to deal with any problems! But we once asked for a different cleaner due to unreliability, and it took some time and some strog words from the manager of the agency before we got it back.

Fatmomma99 · 20/09/2015 22:24

This: i'd text her saying what day are you coming next week to clean?
let her come and clean, then say oh - you owe us from last time, and sadly we have to let you go, can i have my key - thanks, bye.

And what devora, nowahousewife, exasperated and others have said... It's only money. Make sure you get your keys and ditch her.

And make sure you let everyone you've recommended her to know how dishonest she is.

Original poster
Gobbolinothewitchscat · 20/09/2015 22:31

I'm now dwelling on her having another key.....I think it's unlikely but you never know

The joiner is coming tomorrow so I'm going to ask if he can just change the lock. Just been googling and it seems fairly easy for him to just do the Yale.

What a bloody debacle. I just really don't want her in the house again. She's perfectly nice person but I do not want to have this conversation with a 1 and a 2 year old in the same room. If the DC weren't here, I would just get her round and get the key then. Although DH has pointed out that she may not turn up or turn up late etc.

I think I'm going to see if DH will go and get the key. But actually, what's the point of we change the locks? Probably best to change the lock. Send the text and if we don't get the money and/or key back, no big deal

OP posts:
ExasperatedAlmostAlways · 20/09/2015 22:38

Yip it's really easy just to do a yale, doesn't cost much and takes 5 minutes. My brothers done it for me a few times.

Bettercallsaul1 · 20/09/2015 22:45

The trouble is that you can't actually prove thst she didn't clean while you were away - if challenged, she would undoubtedly claim that she had. So, if you follow pp's idea of having her back one last time, watch her do the work and then refuse to pay her, it is possible that she may take you to the Small Claims court to retrieve payment. (Perhaps unlikely, but who knows?) Is trying to reclaim the money worth the hassle? Your husband is obviously incensed as he feels he has been made a fool of but, personally, I would simply cut my losses and let her go. She will get her come-uppance eventually when news spreads of her unreliability (or dishonesty) and she finds herself losing. good customers.

absolutelyloveit · 20/09/2015 22:54

If you don't feel comfortable with her in the house again I'd change the lock and if she does come to clean I'd say then that you no longer require her. I wouldn't worry about the money - you're showing her you're not a pushover by letting her go!

I get the feeling though that she won't come anyway, judging by the radio silence. I wouldn't be surprised if she texts to say she can no longer come to you.

Autumnnights1 · 20/09/2015 23:18

So she's been with you for 7 years and you are quibbling about what a decent person would do and allow her a bit of holiday pay?

You give her "free run" of the house? well you actually get out of the way so she can clean it.

I really dont get this at all.

Original poster
Gobbolinothewitchscat · 20/09/2015 23:28

Why would I pay holiday pay when it's me who is on holiday? We've got builders in so the house still needed cleaned Confused whilst we are away. But even if the builders werent here, there's lots of things that can be cleaned whilst we're not in situ. But, just to put your mind at rest, I do actually still pay the cleaner when she goes on holiday although I'm not actually required to. Plus we pay her a generous Christmas bonus. When your employer (although I'm not actually her employer, per se) is in holiday, do you not bother turning up to work in their absence but expect to be paid too? Confused

My DH's view is that taking money when you haven't actually carried out the agreed work is dishonest. Which I actually agree with. However, my inclination is to let the money side of things go as I just want to draw a line under matters.

Re: getting out if the house, most people I know don't do that. It's actually very inconvenient for me to go out and I'd prefer to be at home but I do it because I know it's easier for the cleaner not to have two toddlers around.

OP posts:
MrsSchadenfreude · 20/09/2015 23:30

No, she's paying her cleaner to provide a service, and to be reliable. She's become unreliable and she hasn't provided the service for which she has been paid. You don't pay self-employed people (which this cleaner is) holiday pay, she's not an employee.

Autumnnights1 · 21/09/2015 00:09

The cleaner has cleaned for her for 7 years! I would have thought whilst of course its not obligatory it would be the right thing to do. The OP's family is expanding, hence more work for the cleaner too. This is one incident and when the builders have been in, this is not a general clean, its a "deep" clean. I'd actually want to bail.

Autumnnights1 · 21/09/2015 00:20

Youre also insinuating that she will use the key to get in and rob you? really? I think you expect far too much for the same money and when you dont get it blame her. Have you had a conversation lately? or have you just "expected" things to be done. Im thinking the latter. Hope she does bail.

Original poster
Gobbolinothewitchscat · 21/09/2015 00:30

It's not a deep clean. The builders are still here. Most rooms are uninhabitable. So the cleaner was asked to clean the kitchen and vacuum two rooms. We still paid her in full even though the work she was doing would only take about an hour per week. She received the usual pay for 5 hours per week though. She basically took 10 hours of money for doing no cleaning what so ever. All we expected was 2 hours of cleaning over two weeks for 10 hours of pay - quite generous I would say.

Once the builders leave, we will be getting in a cleaning company (as cleaner is aware) to do a deep clean. The cleaner has not been in the slightestly disadvantaged by the builders being hear. In fact, it's been quite a cushy number.

Re: our family getting bigger. As with any cleaner, the agreement is she works a fixed number of hours. Not that we pay her a fixed amount to clean the house, however long it takes, so a new baby makes no difference. She cleans for 5 hours and if she doesn't get everything done in that time, too bad for us or I pay her for extra hours.

When she first started working for us, she worked 3 hours a week. It's gradually been upped to 5 hours a week which is more than enough time to do what is needed. In fact, the cleaner often left after 4.5 hours and we never asked for any kind of rebate.

Finally, your completely missing the point re: holiday pay. We were on holiday. Not the cleaner (whom, as I said above is paid holiday pay when she goes away even though she is self-employed). When your employer goes on holiday, do you unilaterally declare it a holiday for yourself too and not bother turning up to work - whilst pretending that you had, actually, been at work and taking your full pay? Most people would find that very dishonest

OP posts:
Original poster
Gobbolinothewitchscat · 21/09/2015 00:36

I'm not insinuating she will rob us - however given that she has taken 10 hours of pay for doing no work, it's not surprising that we're questioning her honesty. That is dishonest.

Like most sensible people, I like to know who has copies of our house keys. Plus, we're required to keep control of who is a key holder in terms of our house insurance.

If the cleaner doesn't want to return that's obviously no skin off our nose. We don't want to continue with things as they are.

OP posts:
Autumnnights1 · 21/09/2015 00:52

Gosh, you really don't like her do you, it also sounds like she doesnt like you either now. Just text her and ask her to pop your key in an envelope and through the door. Sounds really strange after 7 years though and theres probably more to it.

Original poster
Gobbolinothewitchscat · 21/09/2015 01:00

Do you know, autumn - you've really made me see the error of my ways.

You're right. I should put up with this and just hope that the cleaner doesn't decide to leave. I'll text to apologise and offer to pay for 5 hours cleaning a week but no obligation on her to even come to the house and do anything. Hmm.

OP posts:
playftseforme · 21/09/2015 01:07

I think you have been very generous in your dealings with this cleaner over the last 7 years, and you are now being taken for a soft touch. Either let your dh take up the baton on the return of the money, or write it off - it's not worth the stress for you to chase it. And get the lock changed.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 21/09/2015 01:16

Only on Mumsnet... Of course the op is pissed off. The cleaner has effectively stolen from her. There is no more to it because that's enough for anyone with sense!

Legally the op owes her nothing even if she was the nicest and best cleaner in the known universe. They have a service contract: cleaner provides service so op pays for service. Cleaner can't perform service then she gets no pay. Cleaner sends someone else to perform service then op pays for service delivered (obviously I don't need to explain any of this to op but some people have funny ideas about employment law and cleaners, especially on Mumsnet). Presumably there's no contract clause for terminating the service so no notice necessary.

Op, if your dh wants to make a point with the cleaner let him. You have enough on and it is NOT the same as being at work when it's your home and home life involved.

I bet if you changed the locks and left it you'd never hear from her again.

Burnet · 21/09/2015 02:15

If you get her to clean for you, for five hours, then refuse to pay, as you think she didn't clean while you were away, what if she says she did clean, but the building work has made it hard to tell?
What if she phones the police and tells them you are unfairly refusing to pay for work she just did?
What if she refuses to leave? Makes a scene? Tells your neighbours how you tricked her?

You don't have proof. I don't think it's worth it.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 21/09/2015 03:02

Gosh it's a strange world. Yes youve been a very bad person for expecting the cleaner to do her job and do less than the contracted hours for no less money. Come the revolution you'll be the first against the wall.

In the meantime I'd suggest a final text saying how disappointed you are that a 7 yr working relationship has to come to a close but you can tell her heart is no longer in it and you need someone reliable who will fulfil the hours contracted. Best of luck in the future, bye bye.

It's not worth seeing her again or trying to extract any fairness from the close of the relationship, she's become happy to behave unprofessionally and trade on the length of your relationship. She stole quite a large amount of money from you (10x hourly rate is not to be sneezed at!) and there's nothing you can say or do to restore the balance, or regain respect, or for her to learn that her behaviour isn't acceptable.

Walk away, she's occupying far too much of your head :)

Atenco · 21/09/2015 03:41

You have my sympathy, OP, I am also a soft touch with my cleaner and suffer for it. However, what I find very odd is that here in Mexico cleaners are entitled to severance pay, I am surprised that the UK doesn't have such a thing in place. It's getting so I can't afford to fire my cleaner.

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