Is taking my DC out of school really so bad??

[MaryPoppinsPenguins]

I'm getting a lot of shit judgement from DH's parents about our holiday plans.

I thought long and hard about it and decided that it would be okay to take them out of school given that my youngest is only in nursery (so not compulsory) and my oldest is only in year one and it will just be the week before Christmas and I don't feel she'll miss anything crucial.

My DH is told when he can have time off and has to take projects when they're offered, which means that often he won't see the kids from Monday to Friday (which I know is common) and pretty horrible.

So we booked a holiday for this time, went for lunch at PIL's after and ended up having a huge row with them over booking it during school time.

I know this can be a sore subject, but a week of essentially watching videos and having carol concerts isn't really as important as getting to spend a whole week with your dad is it?

(Dons hard hat!)

My DD had to get to about 80% before we had to provide evidence for all absences (she was repeatedly ill that year). Her school BTW knew she was ill, just had to obey the proceedures that kicked in at a certain level.

But isn't Mumsnet funny at present. This OP gets criticised for taking her very young child out for a pretty legitimate reason. But another poster gets slammed for thinking of reporting someone breaking the law by growing Canabis?

Funny world.

(BTW this particular ruling has only very recently changed.)

mummytime the government changed it to 90% this month. Local authorities are cracking down far more severely on unauthorised absences now.

For the record we took DD out of school on three occasions when DD was at primary school (all authorised), but this stopped in year 8. Under current legislation we wouldn't have.

There a difference between breaking the law yourself, and reporting someone else for breaking the law.

And you are very lucky to have only been required to provide the school with medical evidence with a 20% absence record (that equates to 1 Day absence every week). All the schools I know would have involved EWOs at a much lower level of absence.
It's quite possible that your DCs school will be expected by the LA/diocese or trust to lower the absence threshhold if their overall attendance is still below national average. Depending on the size of the school, one child can bring the schools attendance figures below that level.

I don't think MN is funny at the moment. An AIBU about holidays in term time would always cause split views. It's one of those bingo topics. Everyone has their own idea of what's acceptable and won't budge regardless of what anyone else thinks.

I missed the Cannabis thread thank goodness.

Op you take your family away and bloody well enjoy yourselves, you sound as though you need the break. Ignore all the posters on here who are roasting you, at the end of the day five days off school will not damage your child's education and quite frankly I think most of the parents who say they'd never take their kids out of school for a one off holiday are just smug no it alls who think they know best, it's quite comical really.

The problem with the speed limit analogy is that it isn't true. The rules serve different purposes.
You don't want people to speed but you do want full attendance.
So you speed often/seriously you get a ban.The parents of persistent truants don't get fined. You can also justify a holiday for religious reasons. some authorities won't fine unless you go over a certain limit some fine straight away.The rules for school holidays aren't fair. It makes for bad law.

I did a term time holiday 2 years ago and will again this year. I wasn't fined last time but probably will this time and will just pay it.

That holiday was the best two weeks of my life and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Life is short, time with children is even shorter and I want to make the most of it. I'm happy to teach my children that. I don't/wouldn't phone in sick as I wouldn't want to show my children that I was lying to their school.

I don't have a lot of respect for the fining or unauthorised absence. I think it's pathetic really as it doesn't tackle any part of the issue effectively.

If they really want attendance up the punishment should be a proper deterrent - prison or enough of a fine to loose your home or remove your school place.

If they really want attendance up you have to deal with the pain in the arse parents who take a day off sick here and there for not a lot of good reason. The parents who monitor their child's temperature and take a day of when it is slightly out of normal range and they have no other symptoms. The parents who fancy a snuggle day on the sofa and justify it with saying the kid is tired. Implement penalties as employers do for number of absences rather than length.

If they really want attendance up they would address the archaic pattern of holidays. Make all breaks 2 weeks so a holiday can be booked then. People travel internationally now and the summer isn't an appropriate time to visit for many countries.

They don't do these things because they are hard. I'll teach my kids that if you want to effect change you do it properly rather than take the easy way out thanks.

Charming Esmee.

The law is the law for a reason. It does apply to everyone. Breaking it can be harmful.

It's a law because to tackle persistent absenteeism. Which this doesn't tackle.

Equating it to the speed limit which is there to save lives is over the top imo.

All laws do not carry the same weight or punishment, showing they are not the same.

silver a lot of what you suggest is already happening.

Penalties for unauthorised absence are becoming more severe, with more court prosecutions rather than just fines, and short term, repeated absence is no longer being tolerated - "those" parents are subject to visits from the EWO and further action.

All Schools now have the freedom to set their own holiday dates in order to best meet the needs of their community. They are facing resistance to change from many parents.

I agree with most of what silverduck said. The current legislation doesn't address the issue well and probably doesn't target the absence patterns that it should.
I respect her for knowing what she believes in and not lying.
I also think she's right in that until government targets effectively and makes the consequences for flouting the law more serious the measures won't work.

Are you all going away on holiday together just before Christmas, or are you just keeping the kids at home because their dad is there?

south our school attached 5 inset days to the o rover half term evern though parents opposed it. 5 weeks after the summer working parents had to find childcare for another two weeks. It was pitched as a scheme to help with going abroad.

The local secondary's didn't do it so anyone with older children were still unable to go.

They did a survey which came back that parents would prefer it attached to the May half term. They ignored it. The resistance at our school was well founded.

I am getting the impression from this thread that not all parents are aware of current legislation regarding term time absences, which is why they still ask if it is unreasonable to remove children from school to go on holiday.

From a law abiding perspective, yes it is.

Under the circumstances the OP describes I don't think it is.

I shall jump off the fence now.

OK just re-read the thread. I can see why you're doing this, OP. I thought for a minute it was just to spend time with him at home.

There a few issues highlighted in this thread- clearly there isn't one rule for all as a lot of posters seem to have not be fined. The new stricter guidelines appear to differ from school to school, even within the same LEA.

I am a CM, I had a child off for four weeks in March of this year to visit family in Africa. The family were not fined for either of their two children. (2&6)

In the school down the road, a girl in Year 2 was fined (or rather her parents were) for missing 1st day of term as they came back from Italy (also visiting family)

I don't agree with taking children out of school during term time however there are of course exceptions to rules. My dad was in the armed forces, and died very young. I have no memories of family holidays with him and when he died we could not find one photo of him with my brother and I as older children, just as babies. This is beyond sad, so I actually see why you are doing what you are doing.

Don't expect to get a warm response from MN and note to self: don't ask ILs opinion in future

Button the law has been tightened up this month.
I agree though that it must be applied consistently to be clearly understood.

In general, I am absolutely against term-time holidays.

HOWEVER, the week before the Christmas holidays, and the final week of the summer term, are the two weeks for which I feel there is no argument that can be made that the children are missing out on anything educational (in all but a tiny minority of schools).

If you regard the social aspect of school as important, then those weeks ARE important socially - missing out on the Christmas Nativity / Carol service that the child has spent so long rehearsing for - and schools have a very special 'feel' just before Christmas, but educationally it is one of the leasrt damaging weeks of the year to miss.

I think YABU, OP - your ILs were within their rights to make their feelings known. Your children have a right to education - you don't have the right to decide that they don't get to go to school in one particular week. So I think that arguments about your ILs not having the right to criticise your decision don't make sense - this isn't a legitimate parenting decision, it's an illegal one. I also don't understand why people seem to think primary education is less important than secondary - I think that it's most crucial to attend during the early literacy and numeracy stages. Missing a week of GCSE study is also non-ideal, but is something that a competent student can easily make up with independent study.

I think that holidays in term time is always going to be a topic that divides people. If your in laws aren't happy about it then that is their business. You will have to learn to politely but firmly tell them to mind their own business then steer conversations around it.

If I was in your position, I would do the same thing as you. (I'm a teacher) I would however let the teachers know that they wouldn't be at school on those days. It is very annoying to plan something with the students only to have them not turn up.

I no longer teach in the UK thank god... I do think that parents need some form of flexibility in terms of holidays and time off. Not all families can fit holidays into the summer periods.

This school year will be the 4th in a row I am taking my children out of school for holidays. Meh