To be annoyed about BBC bias regarding the Hungary refugee/migrant situation?

[TheNewStatesman]

www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/video-117161.html

Here is the original footage; apparently, when this was shown on the BBC and some other news outlets, the men's cries of "Allahu Akhbar" as they threw rocks were edited out.

I don't know exactly what the solution to the migrant/refugee crisis is; the west will certainly have to accept some, like it or not. But can we please see unbiased news footage so we can make up our minds for ourselves? This is blatant manipulation.

So women are pretty invisible even at home ime

Personally I think the 'sending for their family later' line is bullshit as far as Syria goes.

If you are genuinely fleeing ISIS as a man and leave your wife and children behind they will probably starve because ISIS wouldn't let them earn a living. Even if you did get a job and get to the West, how would you send your money back to your family? It's not like they've got a functioning modern banking system and you can just western union then £50 here and there is it?

And what would happen if they could 'send for them'? How would they know where they were to send for them amidst a mass of displaced people? How would they contact them? How would they travel? They'd have to make exactly the same journey that these supposedly brave heroic selfless men are making on their behalf anyway. And even if they do get here they would have to meet the income requirements of at least £25k per year for a wife with two dependents. How many of them are going to have the skills to command that sort of money when they've just rocked up off a boat?

It's nonsense, these men are just changing their luck in the main and are cowards who should be defending their families rather than running away.

Boo. You have repeated what I said up-thread. Large groups of young men are trying to avoid conscription in Syria. The wives and children do not count. Clearly some have accompanied their husbands and until all the refugees/migrants are registered, no-one really knows what the percentages are from different countries. The old are left behind too.

It is obvious that, when asked, a refugee/migrant will say they want to work or continue their education. They are hardly likely to say they want a life on benefits, are they? Very few will have the necessary skills and prior education to go to university here. How will they pay the fees? The whole scenario is ridiculous. We just have to try and come to an agreement with Syria, register all refugees and repatriate those who are migrants with no threat to their lives. It will take us years.

Syrians, whether male of female, make up less than a third of the current arrivals.

It cannot be unreasonable to suggest that Germany's current Open Door policy is reckless, given that there is an almost limitless supply of third world migrants and refugees to follow? Should we really make way for all of them?

That said we managed to get together the organisation and acceptance of kosovan refugees so it must be possible. And that was 15 years ago

A 1,000 arrived in an hour today in lesbos.

given that there is an almost limitless supply of third world migrants and refugees to follow
the bottom billion

Olive - what you are describing sounds more like isis' version of Islam- the version many of these people are trying to escape

Lemon, sadly no I'm not. I'm describing what I have experienced personally over decades of being educated, living and working in these areas.

That's absolutely my point.

To many here, my description is an unimaginable alien world.

It's not. It's real, ordinary life for many, many women and girls.

And sleepwalking into welcoming tens of thousands of migrants who know no other way to live, assuming that standing on European soil will suddenly make them tolerant and welcoming of equality, is naive at best and bloody dangerous at worst.

We need to think our actions through very very carefully.

We , and our granddaughters, will be living with the consequences for decades to come, long after the glow of knee-jerk door-flinging moral superiority has faded.

I'm sorry but no, I'm sick of this blanket equating Islam with oppression of women, it's lazy and it stinks, i meet Muslim women of all walks of life every day, women in different jobs etc, women studying, women basically having the life they want whilst also being a Muslim, so what you're saying is bullshit hysteria.

i meet Muslim women of all walks of life every day, women in different jobs etc, women studying, women basically having the life they want whilst also being a Muslim,

Lemon of course not all Muslim women are oppressed by men. Those you meet are visible, they are working and studying so likely to be educated and to a certain extent, middle class. The oppressed women aren't so visible because they don't have these freedoms.
I've lived and worked in Muslim countries and met women who never leave their homes unless accompanied by a male relative. There are girls of 13 and 14 married with babies - although the "official" age for marriage may be 16 yrs religious leaders can over-ride this and give permission.

Lemon it's got nothing to do with being Muslim and everything to do with the culture of the countries in question. Why are you trying to make it about Islam?

AGH but what has this got to do with the refugee crisis? Do you REALLY think those in the boats have these ideals? And IF they do, what do you think is going to happen? That they'll somehow convert us to their way of thinking? I just don't get it. So women in certain areas of certain countries are treated like 2nd class citizens, this is not a shock to me, it happens in many religions not just Islam, it's awful but I don't see how it relates to how we react to the current issue of people fleeing Syria.
Please enlighten me.

Lemon it's got nothing to do with being Muslim and everything to do with the culture of the countries in question. Why are you trying to make it about Islam?

So you think Syrian culture as a whole is oppressive to women?

Yes.

How do you explain the female refugees I've seen interviewed that have been students, teachers etc then? They don't seem to be hidden away or locked up, but no doubt they would be under Isis.

How do you explain the female refugees I've seen interviewed that have been students, teachers etc then?
Right back on topic re BBC bias in reporting - the reporters select the educated English speaking women. People i.e. you, think they are representative of all the migrants/refugees.
These women would no doubt have been living a fairly free life in Syria before they left. Unlike the others we don't see...see my previous post.

To be brutally honest, to be able to afford the journey to Europe most of the people travelling here will be middle class, and therefore probably more progressive when it comes to women.

It probably is cultural but tbh as long as the people arriving keep their religion private and don't try to change the way we live in the UK then fair enough but it doesn't always seem to happen and I think we do need to be careful about who comes to the UK. to be honest I would prefer those who were Christians, hindu or are not religious and I hope David Cameron gives the Syrian Christians asylum and those stuck in places like Mosul.

Otherwise I think Europe will eventually become Islamised like the Balkans did and other religions will not be tolerated so it will be more like it was in the middle ages where religion matters and being the wrong faith causes discrimination. You only have to look in the middle East about how the wrong branch of Islam makes your life more difficult.

lemon I would be very wary of any claim that in circumstances like this the people most likely to be able to travel would be middle classes who used savings and earned wealth to travel to the EU. I think that shows a lack of understanding about how wealth moves around in economies in civil wars and who holds the wealth.

Middle class families with children with legitimate reasons to travel I suspect would have got out far earlier in the war when some familial wealth was still intact and routes of travel easier.

I think people with wealth before the war will largely have lost it now if they remained in Syria. The people travelling now will most likely have funded it through the black economy, crime and the spoils of war. At this point in the war they are going to be among the only people left with any money to do things like this, the people who have been most ruthless. In all likelihood people who had legitimate wealth at the start of the war will have passed most of it on to people like that just to survive.

And the questions regarding middle class women and working women in Syria, and also incidentally the lives Yazidi and Christian's lived pre war. Well in a lot of cases they were rather decent. And we're fighting against him. Yes he may have abused human rights and led crackdowns, but now we are seeing the sort of society that those he was cracking down on wanted to impose perhaps he is the lesser of two evils? And certainly he wasn't as bad as the Saudis whose behaviour we are content to ignore. Something else that the BBC often seems reluctant to discuss. I noticed that a few weeks ago they edited a comment George Osborne made about the refugee crisis from saying it would never end until we tackled Assad and Isis to simply 'It will never end until we tackle Assad'.

Angela Merkel has admitted today Assad has to be part of the solution, perhaps this is starting to get somewhere.

Lemon this thread is about media bias. Doesn't that explain the interviews you've seen?

I suppose it's a bit harder to interview the refugees who don't talk English, they could use an interpreter I suppose.

I'd imagine Syria is like many countries, a mix of classes and backgrounds and attitudes towards women, however education is available to females there.

We seem to be going round in circles really, I'm sure there are Syrian refugees that have less than progressive attitudes but I don't see that as a reason NOT to help, I can't work out if you do?

It doesn't matter what the mix of classes etc is if the overriding culture is anti women. That's like saying there were some rich Jews in nazi occupied countries so they were probably ok.

For me it doesn't have anything to do with helping, it's about making sure people genuinely are refugees (this thread has given many reasons why some groups may not be) and ensuring that numbers are sensible.

It probably is cultural but tbh as long as the people arriving keep their religion private

a person's religious beliefs are the foundation from which their worldview arises and so will inform and direct their behaviour in all aspects of life.

that's fine but don't inflict your worldview on me and be respectful of the host country's traditions and beliefs. I don't think this has been the case.

Interesting video I've come across on LiveLeak. It's a Syrian refugee being interviewed. At the end of the interview he says some interesting stuff about how he thinks the EU needs to ensure that the people they are helping are both genuinely in need and capable of living compatibly with EU ideals.

m.liveleak.com/view?i=36e_1443166239