To be annoyed about BBC bias regarding the Hungary refugee/migrant situation?

[TheNewStatesman]

www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/video-117161.html

Here is the original footage; apparently, when this was shown on the BBC and some other news outlets, the men's cries of "Allahu Akhbar" as they threw rocks were edited out.

I don't know exactly what the solution to the migrant/refugee crisis is; the west will certainly have to accept some, like it or not. But can we please see unbiased news footage so we can make up our minds for ourselves? This is blatant manipulation.

No. Especially not the person who came out with the corker that Sousse was safer than London.

Apologies for being so long away from the thread. We have had public holidays in the country where I live for the past three days, and I have been having a break from the internet. Am reading through the thread--it is interesting to hear everyone's different reactions.

We do need to see unbiased footage, I think. How else can we make the right decisions? And editing footage is just wrong, regardless of how altruistic or kindly meant the decision was.

The whole situation is reminding me of the scenes you see when rich tourists visit poor developing countries like Cambodia.

You give to the first poor person who begs from you. Then a little less to the second, third, fourth person. At a certain point you start just gently pushing people away, and walking away very fast. Even nice middle-class Guardian reading types do this. I know because I've stood there and watched them do it.

And we can all justify this with "Well, the money will just find its way into criminal gang leaders' hands anyway....!" and so on. But the real truth is, all of us have limits with how much compassion we are prepared to have with people who have no specific claim on us and most likely do not share our history or values. Even nice people feel like this at some point. None of us wants to give away all our holiday money.

And it's kind of the same with the migrant issue. An initial wave of "Oh look, someone's taken a migrant into their house! How LOVELY! We should all do that!" Followed by a wave of "Christ almighty, there are, like, LOADS AND LOADS of them!"

Apparently, a few years ago a survey was carried out of developing countries, asking people whether they would choose to migrate to the west if they had the chance. Apparently, about 40% said yes. That is a colossal number of people.

One economist suggested as a decent solution: Have refugees diverted to countries as nearby the country of origin as possible, and then direct an increased and generous lifeline of foreign aid there, directed at creating employment and integrating people there. No, it's not ideal in every way, but it is the best possible solution and less harsh than others. And it is inevitable.

Such measures will happen sooner or later whether we like it or not, so maybe we should just start now, instead of kidding ourselves.

People bringing up the lack of Christian refugees- they are a minority in Syria so it's not surprising you don't see much of them on the news.

I think a discussion about numbers is fair but I still can't handle the hysteria about "our way of life" being eroded etc and this sense of superiority you always get on these threads- "look how THEY behave", someone on this thread even used the word "backwards"?! I know I'll get called a bleeding heart liberal but I do think that attitude stinks, and I really do doubt that any large group of European migrants in a desperate situation would behave any differently.

Funnily enough I haven't seen any of them around lately, but I would be interested to hear their views now.

I'm sorry do you think we're all cowering silently thinking "oh goodness shabby was right!", cos I'm certainly not, you said some ridiculous things on that thread that are still ridiculous now.

Lemon as an example of why our way of life is and will be eroded by 'backward' thinking, we have a seriously scary burgeoning problem in the UK right now with young girls being subjected to FGM. Apparently the authorities estimate they are uncovering something like 500 new cases per month at the moment (think that's correct but can't be bothered to trawl for my source at the moment) whereas 20 or 30 years ago it was something we had a vague awareness of that happened somewhere else in the world and only a tiny handful of cases existed in the UK.

These families are having children here and their children will be having children here. If we think we can educate them out of centuries of cultural and religious dogma and brainwashing in the nick of time, then you are very naive indeed.

Lemon, I am a liberal too and I believe in defending liberal values. The horror of FGM was ignored because liberals embraced cultural relativism and looked the other way.

Well said Olivepip and Shins. Whilst as a nation we are great at responding to a crisis we also want things to be "fair" and to see we,are helping the right people and not others who are not refugees and simply want to move to Europe. If we can take a controlled amount of people we can "process" them properly and give them the help and support they need. It may help avoid resentment from British people who are struggling to access housing and other services.

You may think the things I said were ridiculous but only because you haven't experienced them.

The truth is that most of these people live a totally different life to us and just the fact that they want to move to European countries doesn't mean that they are going to suddenly change their way of live to fit in with us, rather the other way round.

Totally agree with Olive excellent post

but I still can't handle the hysteria about "our way of life" being eroded etc

Have you ever lived another, entirely different 'way of life?'

One in which, perhaps, your birth and death and those of your daughters would not be registered because you are a 'chattel.' (Direct translation)?

One in which you may not leave your house unless covered up, accompanied by a male relative of 12 years or older?

One in which you may not drive, vote, have the right to education or choice of husband?

Have you?

Because the hysteria I see here is not coming from anyone who genuinely understands how important and rare are the freedoms that give you the right even to sit at your computer discharging your opinion into the ether without fear of death.

well said Olive

Olive - what you are describing sounds more like isis' version of Islam- the version many of these people are trying to escape.

Do you really think all Muslims hold these views?? It is called extremism for a reason.

Many of the young female migrants I've seen interviewed have spoken about wishing to continue their education for instance.

Many of those young female immigrants are at liberty to access a very good eduction in the countries they've come from. Any country that doesn't allow young women to receive an education is probably also a country that doesn't allow young women to leave the house without their father or brother's permission, never mind pack a bag and go to Europe unchaperoned.

So you think education is free and easy to obtain in Syria at the moment??!

No, but what has that got to do with women in particular?

sorry Lemon I think we are talking at cross purposes, you referred to women 'migrants' so I didn't think you were talking about Syrian refugees in particular. Although I would imagine an education isn't necessarily at the very top of any Syrian's priorities right now, unless they already left Syria ages ago and are now moving on from wherever they first sought refuge.

Why wouldn't it be a priority when they are thinking about starting a new life?

Lemon it appears that the Syrian Christians are not in UN camps due to their fears for safety. Reading further about this it appears both US and UK policy of taking in Syrians for asylum from UN run camps has been described as discriminatory against this minority.

This has been an interesting read. I agree that the media is shockingly poor these days and it's such a disappointment. I remember as a teenager glued to channels such as CNN, BBC news even sky news was considerably better then. They're all awful now.

I think when people are desperate their personality can change. I think a proud, kind, intelligent lesson can turn savage when desperate. I know I have that in me and I believe we all do.

I believe these men are mainly leaving their women and children at home because they are less important in their sexist society so it's the norm to put the man first. I knew many children of migrants from Africa and other places at uni and they always sent women and children first- in the most cynical case you could say they'll be helped more than a single man by almost any society. They also valued their children (specifically their education) more highly than the man of the household. So I don't believe these men are making brave and arduous trips to set up home then send for their wives at all I'm afraid.

I recall there being a far more positive and less hysterical response to the Kosovo refugee crisis of 1999, so much has changed since then.

10% of Syrias population was Christian in 2006 and more was Yazidi. As they are the most at risk in Syria you would expect them to be an even higher % of the refugees, 25% upwards.

Instead they are invisible, unsafe in the refugee camps, unsafe travelling with the main body of refugees (who are probably almost as dangerous to their life and limb as ISIS) and unsafe in their home countries. I don't know where they all are, there were at least 2 million of them but they seem to be so invisible as refugees I think they're probably mostly dead, imprisoned or enslaved. Forced conversion I think is the best they could hope for, but I'm not sure ISIS would even allow them to live if they did that.

We are being told that Syrian Christians are in danger in Syria, in danger in the camps and in danger in the flow of refugees.

Yet the argument seems to be that if we take in the very people who pose a danger to them, the moment they step on to EU soil they change murderous bigoted scumbags to happy clappy lovers of tolerance, religious freedom and political correctness who just want to give us all a big hug!!!

Right.

TheLush I believe these men are mainly leaving their women and children at home because they are less important in their sexist society so it's the norm to put the man first.

Probably. But we never get to here from these women and children. They have no voice, and it seems to me (would love to be corrected by someone with far more knowledge than I) that many Muslim women are not encouraged to speak out about oppressive or badly behaved men in the way we in the west are.

I would also be surprised, considering that many Muslims marry quite young, that there are not a sizable majority of wives and children simply being left behind completely, maybe some in the hope of rejoining their husbands later, maybe some abandoned. Who knows? Because again, we never hear this side of the story.

I have only been to 3 countries in the Middle East. I hated all of them, tried again because I felt awful writing off a region but each time I hated it. Ugly, dull, dusty, shouty, getting harassed and shouted at constantly, begging, harassment, shouting, ripping you off, being rude and pushing you about and getting too close. And did I mention the harassment?

My point is, I'm far from an expert. But each visit I marvelled at how invisible women were. Even places you'd traditionally expect to see women- hotel cleaners, serving food at resturants, walking through the street even- men. Everywhere. Intimidating harrassy shouty men. Hated it.