Feminists storm 'Should Wife-beating be Allowed?' debate in France and get attacked!

[Sunsoo]

And the response is sickening:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/16/femens-topless-condescension-towards-muslim-women-only-helps-sexism

I cannot believe people think that these women are just as bad as the men whom attacked them!

Also, why the fudge was this debate even allowed to happen? Violence is illegal in France. End of discussion!

I actually might stop reading the Gruan since they've published this article.

Debate should always be allowed to happen even ones where there is a clear right and wrong answer like this question. I wouldn't be comfortable with the authorities being able to ban a debate from happening just because popular opinion is against the thing being proposed or suggested. I also think from that it's better to let the twats who come out with stuff like this to expose their true colours.

The Quran was a book that emerged from a very archaic society where gender and societal rules were very different to contemporary times. Because Muslims try to adhere to keeping their faith intact they may discuss topics that are a little irrelevant or odd from modern point of view. They will have touched on that topic rather than advocating beating wives.

You or I may not see religious texts in the same way they do but we do have freedom of thought. Muslims are bound by their State's laws anyway.
So if a religious group are having a private gather I don't think it's respectful to intrude with such a blatant effort to cause offence.
It's a shame there was some disgusting behaviour by individuals who were trying to harm the ladies and that's not on in the slightest (of course).
I think their of protest was misinformed and insulting and outrageous. Embarrassing for all involved.

Femen are not exactly your bog standard feminists though are they? Is their approach really helping matters? I think that's what the article is saying to me. This is also worth a read. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/11/femen-nudity-racist-colonial-feminism

"So if a religious group are having a private gather I don't think it's respectful to intrude with such a blatant effort to cause offence."

Really? Does that just apply to religious groups or would it apply to political groups too? Suppose the BNP held a meeting discussing whether it was OK to beat up black people or Jews, should we just let them get on with it?

I absolutely despise this idea that religions should get a free pass. If you believe that it's OK to beat women, then you should get called out on it - your belief that it's what God wants you to do is not a legitimate get-out clause.

I'm agreed with you hackmum. Having the freedom to express an opinion even one as messed up as "should wife beating be allowed" and others having the freedom to call you out on it is what makes our society a better one to be living in than others which aren't so keen on allowing freedom of expression. No one should have a free pass.

Yanbu op.

Femen are controversial to say the least but no way do they deserve to be physically attacked. Even more shocking that their attackers are being defended.

So if a religious group are having a private gather I don't think it's respectful to intrude with such a blatant effort to cause offence.

What about respect for the women that this group of men want to physically assault and control?!

I'm with Femen on this. I find the Guardian's way of reflexively soft-soaping of sexism and homophobia in Islam revolting. It just goes to show that women's rights always come last

Suppose the BNP held a meeting discussing whether it was OK to beat up black people or Jews, should we just let them get on with it?

Exactly this. The very same people who will now be fretting about these wife-beaters' religious freedom would think nothing of disrupting a UKIP rally, despite the fact that UKIP arguably have less abhorrent views than hardline Muslims.

Muslim women aren't a homogenous mass of subdued and uneducated prisoners walking round in fear of their husbands. We need to park this attitude that Enlightened Western Civilisations will fix the Backward Savages. It's insulting that Femen are self-appointed saviours. Muslim Women's groups have spoken out about Femen repeatedly asking them to let them solve their own problems in their own Culturally Sensitive way.

I didn't mean that religious views should have a free pass. But presumably in a series of lectures an discourse, something similarly wordy would be more appropriate and screaming with your clothes off in a very conservative audience. The issue isn't whether wife beating is Ok cos we all know the answer to that, it's about whether Femen is a useful campaigning organisation and I'm on the side of No.

BNP and UKIP are legitimate and active political parties in the UK. Ridiculous attitudes exist everywhere. We live in a strange world. Shrug.

Both the protesters were from Muslim backgrounds. It's a copout to paint this as some kind of colonialism by the back door.

That's an opinion piece - the clue is in the section of the paper in which it was published ("comment is free"). They publish all sorts of comment pieces which may or may not be in agreement with the paper's political or moral stance.

However - I'm in France and this incident has been completely misreported in the English speaking press. The Femen protesters falsely claimed that at the time of their protest, the speakers were debating whether wives should be beaten. Video evidence has since emerged suggesting that the debate at the time was in fact very moderate.

This incident has been widely reported in the french press, whereas only the initial, inaccurate reports have appeared in the UK press. (I live in France and am a french speaker)

Fighting the ridiculous with ridicule is I think rather effective. Of course those debating have the right to debate, just the same as anyone debating something else illegal and morally objectionable (such as ethnic cleansing, or eugenics) might have. But can they really complain when it results in protest such as that of FEMEN, who equally have the right to object and disrupt?

I hope those kicking and manhandling the women were charged with assault. There are ways of removing protesters safely and legally and that was not an example of it.

PS I don't have a problem with the Femen protestors protesting, they have a perfectly valid point about attitudes to women in Islam. I do have a massive problem with them lying to defend their actions though!

I don't know about France but in this country incitement to violence is a criminal offence. The BNP can meet but they can't publically advocate going out and beating up ethnic minorities. Standing up and offering a twisted religious justification for wife beating is clearly inciting violence. I don't see how it can be interpreted any other way. To pretend otherwise in order to defend your credentials as a trendy relativist establishes you as a complete twat IMHO.

If the debate was on 'Is it okay to hit cats?', rather than women, you can bet more people would be outraged!

There was no incitement to wife beating. There is a video available of the debate immediately preceding the protest.

I'm afraid this is just Muslim bashing - I'm no apologist for Islam but please don't get take in by racist news reports.

Amazing how the right to religious freedom trumps women's right to not be beaten or married off as children if you're Islamic

*Mistigrl

The Femen protesters falsely claimed that at the time of their protest, the speakers were debating whether wives should be beaten. Video evidence has since emerged suggesting that the debate at the time was in fact very moderate.*

WTF? You are saying that it was a moderate discussion on wife-beating?!?

Femen are not feminists, they were founded and are organised by a man, for a start.

I love the article you posted OP, much more intelligent. The article says the meeting was "allegedly" about wife-beating, is there any proof that that really was the topic?

"married off as children" - Where on earth did that come from?! What uneducated, Islamophobic sentiments. I'm checking out of this thread as it is just winding me up. There was a reason I gave up caring about politics :)

"WTF? You are saying that it was a moderate discussion on wife-beating?!?"
The conference was about Women and Islam, not wife-beating. Jesus wept.

Mistigirl: "There was no incitement to wife beating."

Though as some of the men then went and kicked the women, it hardly matters, does it? There's no clearer signal that a man thinks violence against women is acceptable than him behaving violently towards a woman.

I think if you are practising and preaching an inherently sexist religion in a time when those views are considered old fashioned, repressive and abhorrent, you should probably be prepared to have people challenge you.

www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/010-women-worth-less.htm

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11862220/Topless-protesters-disrupt-Muslim-conference-on-women.html

According to The Telegraph, the topic of the conference was 'The Role of Muslim Women'. Wife-beating was a topic being discussed, but not the theme of the whole conference.

6,000 people signed a petition before the event in protest of the event.