To think an English teacher should know the correct pronunciation of Glamis?

[susannahmoodie]

As in Thane of......?

Or is it now ok to say "glam-mis"??

THe comment on "prized" 4 year Scottish degrees is hilarious - the degrees are 4 years because Scottish students cover a broader curriculum to 18, which is good in many ways but allows less opportunity for the subject specialisation of English and Welsh A levels. English and Welsh students predicted 4 grade As (or these days A*s I guess - the stared grades hadn't been invented when I did A levels) including the subject they are applying to study will sometimes be given an offer which allows them to skip the first year of a Scottish degree - I had an offer like that from Dundee (direct entrance to year 2), though in the end its not where I studied.

Actually Salmon I went to school with a boy whose surname was Menzies and corrected teachers who pronounced it Ming-is because his family pronounced it Menz-ies. I wonder if it is a regional thing?

And Iliked i studied CSYS (certificate of sixth year studies) in English (also French and History) and I can assure you there was a lot of specialisation. At the time CSYS was generally regarded as higher standard than A levels. However I'm 42 and sat mine when I was 17 so fully accept I may not be up to date with modern qualifications.

OOAOML It is possible, and indeed common, to go directly to Scottish universities with just sufficient UCAS points worth of Scottish Highers though - which meant more subjects worth less points per subject than equivalent A levels - the CSYS was something extra on top wasn't it?

CSYS

Fastrack

So CSYS is the old equivalent of Advanced Highers. You can go directly to Year One of a Scottish degree with just Highers. Advanced Highers/CSYS is the equivalent of A level and fast tracks you to start in year 2 of a Scottish degree with good grades - or can do in some circumstances.

I know - I got place offers based on my highers but I was only 16 and totally not ready for university (although actually I wasn't ready at 17 either but hey ho). Quite a few people at my school did sixth year, most doing a mix of CSYS and more highers, some like me doing all CSYS. It was a good preparation for university.

Why are schools still teaching Shakespeare? Are you serious?

Yes I am serious.

My argument is that there have been many, many more relevant, appropriate and interesting books written since.

Sure, cover the contribution he made, but why not take the chance to introduce kids to stuff that'll blow their minds & make them think, rather than take the easy option & deliver a lesson that hasn't changed for 50 years (and has been boring kids for just as long)....

OOAOML it supports rather than contradicts the fact that Scottish degrees are 4 years not because they are "better" and should be more highly "prized" but because the first year is there to bring students who have done Highers only (most of them) up to the level of subject specialisation English students should have by the time they have achieved a good A level in the subject (or a Scottish student should have if they have done Advanced Highers/ CSYS) though.

The 4 year Scottish degree is the same as the 3 year degree from an equivalent English or Welsh university, because year one in Scotland is a foundation year really. That is why students with A grades in CSYS/ Advanced Highers or English/ Welsh A levels skip year 1 in Scotland.

Iknow Shakespeare is only one small part of the English syllabus, as I am sure you probably know.

Back in my fairly brief teaching career I found students (especially lower achieving boys) absolutely loved Shakespeare once we got going with it because it is much ruder than any of the modern stuff considered appropriate for their age, and there is vastly more blood and murder...

Shakespeare is only one small part of the English syllabus, as I am sure you probably know.

Indeed, but is it the best use of the limited "syllabus space" available?

I went to Cambridge from the Scottish education system. I'm also 42 OOAOML we probably sat the same papers!

My offer was conditional on getting As in 2 subjects at CSYS and an A in a 6th Higher, on top of the 5 highers at A that I already had when I applied. In other words they definitely treated them as equivalent to A levels.

I don't think it's standard for all English students with A levels to skip straight to 2nd year of a Scottish degree is it?

No, it's not standard (as the many first years from England would verify), and first year was not a 'foundation' year.

OOAML - the boy you went to school with May we'll have "corrected teachers" about the pronunciation of Menzies but it is a simple fact that the true pronunciation is "Ming-is".

It is one of my family's surnames.

This is non - negotiable.

People who pronounce it "MEN-Zees" are stupid.

may well

*People who pronounce it "MEN-Zees" are stupid.

Surely not this guy though?

Most people in my town called the newsagent "John Men Zees". But oddly the same town also had a department store called "Menzies" and that was universally referred to as "mingisses".

Oh and the massive worldwide aviation service company that sharea corporate origins with the newspaper group is definitely "Menzees".

That is why students with A grades in CSYS/ Advanced Highers or English/ Welsh A levels skip year 1 in Scotland

Certainly didn't when I was there.

What about MacFadyen? That should really be pronounced Mc - Fadj - en (with the sound "dj" like "budge." It's still pronounced that way in most of Scotland (I think) and in Eastern North Carolina where there are a lot of people of Scottish descent, but the pronunciation has been Anglicized in most other places.

I am mystified as to why a work of literature, or any work of art for that matter, has to be relevant for it to have a place in the curriculum.

As for interesting, that's purely a matter of opinion.

In what way is Shakespeare not appropriate?

My Literature professor at university insisted on called Don Quixote "Don Quick Sote" and, when questioned, declared that she was teaching in England so she would pronounce it the "English Way."

Perhaps this teacher is from the same school of thought?

YANBU but I'm not surprised, either.

At DD's school the other week, her teacher ran through the curriculum for the year, enthusiastically proclaiming that many of the children could already write "brilliant".

I nearly wept at the demise of the Scottish education system

"My Literature professor at university insisted on called Don Quixote "Don Quick Sote" and, when questioned, declared that she was teaching in England so she would pronounce it the "English Way."

Perfectly usual. Or do you say Paree and Barthelona?

Thinking about it Bertrand I think most people's names are usually attempted in the 'home style'. If your class had a French boy called Jean, would your teacher have pronounced it the same way as the gir's name Jean? (sorry I'm not sure how to write those phonetically)

This has just reminded me of the scene in Goodbye Mr Chips where he says 'what's the point of teaching a boy to say Kickero when for the rest of his life he'll say Sissero, if he says it at all'

Place names are often translated - if you are speaking English you visit Paris and Brussels, (spelling Matching pronounciation), not Paree and Broosell.

An actual person,yes of course, you say it in the way they want it to be said. But there are conventions about the way "foreign" words are said in other languages. Paris, Londres, Rome. For example. Jake- queeze (cf earlier posts) Don Quik-sote.........