Plastic bag law is a waste of time

[Rufusgy]

Normal plastic bags are so thin and create hardly Any waste and many people reuse them. I use them to line my bins. So now will have to buy bin bags, that are usually thicker with more plastic.

These bags for life use a lot of plastic and I've seen study's that they waste far far more as they get grotty and people bin them after a dozen or so uses.

If they really wanted to make a change how about getting rid of all the plastic veg comes in or have a plastic bottle deposit scheme?

Its still all this stuff about a free bag if you buy raw fish or razor blades.

Attached a pic of my veg and all the plastic trays!

That and no interim measures. You either have a scheme that fixes everything or you just don't start anything!

So no classes on how to prepare your lentils for weaving. You must start off lentilling the Mappa Mundi and Bayeux Tapestry. And if you fail, well, they told you so

Whilst I agree with you re the need to reduce food packaging YABU about the plastic bag rules. Loads of people moaned about it when it was introduced here (Scotland) and said it was too complicated, would never work, etc etc. Lo & behold it was introduced with no major issues, it's not complicated at all and it's massively reduced plastic bag use. Why not just give it a chance, OP?

No Pipbin you are wrong. I am all for evidence-based solutions to environmental problems. I am completely against 'solutions' which actually make things worse (or at best make not a blind bit of difference) but are popular because they make people feel better about doing their bit.

Can you explain how NOT using lots of small plastic bags each week but instead using larger reusable bags makes things worse??

So, what would you suggest, Pubes?

This has the benefit of being immediate and everyday. A very real way to heighten awareness in everybody, every time they go shopping, for anything, anywhere.

The benefits of not manufacturing use-once bags is blindingly obvious. The benefits of reusing more sturdy bags is also obvious. The rise in recycled fabric bags is also obvious (especially if, like me, you make and sell them). The reduction of plastic bags in the Pacific is obvious, in the hedgerows, in the bellies of wildlife. That is specifically and measurably plastic bags, not other plastic waste (as has already been linked to).

What else do you want? How else do you suggest we make changes?

I read an Australian study that seemed to do a pretty comprehensive job of estimating true costs of various bag types (manufacture, transport etc), and they found those compressed napkin type ones were the best compromise between throwaway carriers and full on fabric bags.

In the UK our transportation costs might be a bit different perhaps?

Well, I usually use bags I owned before all the charging business came along. Work bag is a rucksack as I cycle to work and has room for day to day shopping. Bigger shops = bigger rucksack and bag I linked to above. And neither need washed (vegetables come from local farm and are delivered in string bags they reclaim so no issue with dirt).

I don't use bags at all they drive me round the bend. I still have my old Sainsburys plastic smartboxes that they phased out years ago. You can put as many tins as you like in they will never break, and you can wash them out as many times as you like. The odd ocassions I forget to take them the plastic bags make me so cross.

Ireland have charged for bags for years. Everyone just gets used to remembering their own bags.

Yes there are other issues such as unnecessary packaging and importing food from distant countries, but at least this measure is addressing one of the issues.

Most people will not use their non-carbon-neutral jute or cotton bags 400+ times without washing them though.

I wouldn't dream of washing a jute bag that carries packaged groceries. Who does that??

Here in Scotland, they've really cut the amount of plastic bags being used since charging for them. They only cost 5p, but that's really made people think when they get to the till. I buy liners for the kitchen bin, but only use two a week because I recycle too. I don't line the small bins. The only thing is, while I remember to take them for food shopping, I almost always forget to take them for clothes/shoes, but some people still like the status of being seen carrying certain shop-branded bags.

The same sort of people who wash raw chicken I'd guess.

I don't mind paying for bags but I will object to paying for them with my online delivery from tescos. I'm always shocked how little they put on each bag - sometimes it's one loaf of bread per bag so I will be massively peeved if I have to pay for 3 bags when it can all fit into one!

Fair point craic.

I was just thinking that, squoosh - I must have used some of my bags loads more than that and have never washed any of them, apart from the one my child spilt yoghurt on when we took it out as a picnic bag.

In Ireland, prior to the introduction of the 'plastic bag tax' an estimated 1.26 billion plastic bags were dispensed at retail outlets annually. This equated to a consumption rate of circa 340 plastic bags per inhabitant per year. Since the introduction of the levy, consumption of plastic bags has decreased to an estimated 80 million bags per year, equating to approximately 20 bags per inhabitant per year. This equates to a circa 95% reduction in the dispensing of plastic bags to consumers at retail outlets.

Similar to the reduction in plastic bag consumption, there has been a corresponding 95% reduction in the litter problems associated with plastic bag

OurBlanche Your argument goes a bit like this:

Something must be done!
Here is 'something', we must do it!

So, what would you suggest, Pubes?
I would suggest we keep looking for better solutions and don't just jump at the first idea that makes us feel all warm and fluffy without actually engaging our brains and looking at the evidence.

I'm sure you're onto something with the recycled cloth bags idea. If that could be scaled up to a level that could easily supply everybody it would possibly be a real solution. We're not there yet though are we?

JohnCusacksWife - it's because most of the alternatives, especially cotton, have a far greater overall impact on the environment and people don't generally reuse them enough times to recoup the damage. Here is the report I linked to earlier.

In addition to other bags, I use light bags similar to the fabric on umbrellas. They are very light and sturdy and I carry two in my hand bag all the time. Easy to wash too.

Where I live we already are charged a fee per plastic bag but I used reusable bags anyway.

Pubes I don't have an argument!

I have a habit of a) not using plastic bags, b) making my own shopping bags from old clothing, curtains etc, c) making the same for other people. I have done all of that for decades. Not because I seek to be all warm and fluffy without actually engaging our brains and looking at the evidence. but because I think it is better than nothing. I have also explained that I never take extraneous food packaging home with me.

I have said, more than once, that charging for carrier bags is a start, an awareness raiser and that it is, in my opinion, better than nothing. Far batter than your attitude, which seems to be "I don't think it will work so I will nay say it and gently ridicule anyone who thinks it a good idea".

As for being able to scale up my recycled cloth idea, yes, we are there. Technologically we are and have been for centuries. For today's skill free population there are free patterns, tutorials and youtube videos, etc, that show how this can be done by anyone and everyone. All you need is some material (an old skirt, dress, a pillowcase, a pair of tattered jeans, an old coat, blanket, duvet cover, couple of teatowels, anything you can lay your hands on), a needle and thread and about 30 minutes from your undoubtedly busy life. The problem is that some people, like yourself, are waiting for someone else to do it for them instead of doing what they can as individuals.

Every great journey starts with a single step, as someone once said. Why are you so against this first step? What else should we be doing? Try to be specific.

Why are you so against this first step?
Because while it would be lovely if everybody made their own recycled bags from spare cloth they had lying around at home, the truth is the vast majority of people won't do that, they'll just buy whatever is easily available. At the moment that is usually a cotton or jute bag which causes massive environmental damage. Until we have a solution that is shown to be environmentally better, is widely available and is acceptable to the majority of people, then the 'first step' of the new plastic bag law is a step in the wrong direction.

But I do have a solution. That the rest of you can't sew and won't take time to do something for yourselves is the real problem: consumerism + convenience.

If you are proposing the cessation of cotton and jute production be brave, says so. Then suggest how to make a first step with it.

And your logic is still flawed and ignores all points put forward by others, including me!

Pipbin our school sends wet clothes and uniform orders home in cheap pedal bin liners.

Oh England, stop your moaning.

We've had charges for carrier bags in Wales for years now, as have Scotland and NI, and it's working fine. We all remember to take our jute or material bags with us and it's cut carrier bag use massively.
You'll get used to it too.
Count yourself lucky you live in the UK.
#1stworldproblems

Oh and those worrying about online grocery delivery, ask for your shopping to be delivered without bags. We do and the delivery driver puts the crates into our kitchen and we unload onto the table. No problem and no carrier bag charges.

we had our crates for about 15 years. that's 15 years worth of plastic bag for the weekly shop (I wouldn't know how many bags we would need for that)

was ranting at tyesco today about this, they'll introduce paying 5p a bag from October.

I have to spend nearly £100. A WEEK .

DC and I disabled. me a carer for her.

JUst scraping the breadline.

we have food allergies and have to have lacto free and gluten free foodstuffs.

double or triple the price of normal foods.

we have allergies to certain sops/washing powder etc so i have to get special onwes which cost more than normal.

i have to buy pull ups for DC (whos a teenager) becaUSE of herdisabiliteis, (Ive been form filling/fighting for those from the gov for years but no avail).

all this adds up.

I know its not the shops problem if we have these issues but why pay all that and THEN have to pay for the privelage of shopping there?

in a way we're all on zero hours contracts with the selfd service checkouts as supermarkets do away with more and more cashiers!

and if i genuinly forget to bring a bag (you know, many things to deal with and thats the last thing on my mind), well....

just because a few people throw bags into the sea and litter the place the rest of us have to literally pay for it.

and i use mine anyway for the rubbish as we dont get rubbish bins in my area, so i already have to pay for bin bags and food waste bags.

and now tesco are going ahead with this. ffs.