Plastic bag law is a waste of time

[Rufusgy]

Normal plastic bags are so thin and create hardly Any waste and many people reuse them. I use them to line my bins. So now will have to buy bin bags, that are usually thicker with more plastic.

These bags for life use a lot of plastic and I've seen study's that they waste far far more as they get grotty and people bin them after a dozen or so uses.

If they really wanted to make a change how about getting rid of all the plastic veg comes in or have a plastic bottle deposit scheme?

Its still all this stuff about a free bag if you buy raw fish or razor blades.

Attached a pic of my veg and all the plastic trays!

You sound so desperate to be right but you are wrong. It's not complicated at all. The shops who are allowed to give free bags know the circumstances and you as a consumer do not have to worry about it. In Scotland bag use has decreased dramatically - amazing what we will do to save 5p! In the fullness of time there will be far fewer bags in landfill. Not everyone has a bin where a carrier will do as a liner and surely you do not need the same quantity as you need to carry shopping. Biodegradable bags are possibly not strong enough for shopping if the food waste bags are anything to go by.

I always take reusable bags with me when I'm doing my weekly shop, but frequently need a bag if I'm making an unplanned stop at a shop, and reuse them as bin bags or to take things to work in. I do have a fold-up bag in my handbag but they're such a faff at self-checkouts.

Will this only apply to food shops or will all retailers be doing it?

Yet I'm not the one saying I'm right and everyone else is wrong, hun

Not complicated you obviously no little about the changes.

So, did you read any of the evidence you requested?

Or do you no[sic] it all already?

It is easy to grasp why it is a good start.

Firstly its a poor start, the Italian system is much better. Secondly its more of an end to the policy, there is no roadmap for future changes to packaging or anything. Doubt anything else will happen for a decade.

OK, so you didn't really ask in order to discuss anything. You really do no[sic] it all.

Pick your semantic exception all you like. Any start is a good start. I don't sit here, fatalistically moaning that somebody else won't do anything more for a decade. I will continue to do as I have done without any legislation to prompt my own ethics, I will continue to Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Recover.

I'm sorry if this has been said before, but aren't single use plastic bags a (fairly) recent thing? I'm a child of the 70s/80s and remember my DM having a selection of 'shopping bags', these tended to be some kind of oilcloth.

I use OCADO for main shop and would happily use less plastic bags (some of their packers seems to use far more than I would, but appreciate they have guidelines about not putting certain items in same bag). For day to day shopping I have my rucksac, bike panniers or a folded up carrier in a pocket. Back in the day when DH & I used to go to the supermarket we used to take own bags and were looked at as right oddballs...

I think your talking about yourself.

That report was not about the uk policy,about bags in general.

Yay they've wasted millions on coming up with their rules and come up with a complicated system that isn't perfect. But we should celebrate it because its better than doing nothing

No we should strive for a system that is good, not one that makes a small difference.

I want to buy figs, berries, ripe avacadoes without collecting all this plastic.

The problem isn't people who reuse their carrier bags as bin bags, but the people who get new single use bags every time they go to the supermarket and don't reuse them, but let them build up to epic proportions in their cupboards and then throw them away.

And also the mindless morons that litter and just let them blow around until they get stuck in trees etc.

Hopefully, having to pay for these bags will focus their minds and make them reuse them, or buy other resusable bags.

I am a little annoyed about having to pay for bags (I reuse all mine as kitchen bin bags and carefully manage the amount we use - we have a combination of bags for life and single use bags, so that we have enough to use as bin bags). But it's a tiny cost and fair enough if it cuts down plastic waste.

When the charge comes in, I will look into whether it is cheaper to buy bin bags or buy single use bags to use as bin bags.

But the other issue is quality - UK supermarkets, with the exception of M&S and perhaps Aldi that I have noticed, so they can say they have reduced the amount of plastic used, have made the bags so uselessly thin that you are lucky if you get the bag home in one piece.

This is short sited IMHO. If the bags tear so easily, there is no hope of reusing them. I have a normal plastic single use bag that I bought for 4 cents in a Spanish supermarket in May that is much thicker and has been reused many times in the past 3/4 months - the UK ones taken at the same time would have been in landfill straight away - half of them can't even be used as bin bags.

So it would appear that in England at least, we have taken the stance that there is no hope of making people behave responsibly, by making them reuse their bags, so we will make the single use bags as thin and crappy as possible, so the amount of plastic thrown away is reduced and we can claim that we have done what we are supposed to.

I also think we need to reduce the amount of bags in use from clothes shops and places like Boots.

They often look at you as though you are insane if you want to use your own bag and not theirs, and the bags supplied by most places are not a suitable size or shape to be reused as bin bags - they can sometimes be reused, but I find that clothes shops bags are generally useless once you have got the clothes home.

"Sounds like an excuse to be lazy and not take fabric bags with you." Just what I was thinking. OP you don't have to limit yourself to the legal requirements there's plenty you can do to reduce your own impact on the environment.

"Biodegradable bags are possibly not strong enough for shopping if the food waste bags are anything to go by." The corn starch carrier bags used on the continent are no worse than the current plastic carriers used by UK supermarkets and sometimes stronger.

I agree to a point about it not being enough hence my saying so in my first post but then I suspect research has been done as to how the British are best dealt with in terms of new ways of doing this. We're not great at change generally.

I must say I'm not a fan of the plastic bags for life, still plastic still not biodegradable and going to end up in landfill fairly soon and using the same amount of plastic as up to 4 regular carriers so a bit pointless really. Likewise the vinyl ones. Cotton, canvas and jute much better.

"I also think we need to reduce the amount of bags in use from clothes shops and places like Boots." No reason you can't use the bags you'd use for groceries as I and many others in the countries which already have this law do. Mainly it's my rucksack gets used for this. Also don't take the hangers unless you genuinely need them.

What I will say about the changes/new laws is I haven't yet seen a valid argument as to why it came in at different times in different parts of the UK? I'm guessing perhaps a devolved issue but that's still no excuse for England not doing it the same time as the rest.

Works well in Ireland and Wales. I visit both and always forget my bags.

I have been hoarding bags for a while now, probably ok for a couple of years.

erm, you laughed at the idea that reducing plastic bags would make much difference. You asked why not just use biodegradable ones? I linked to research on those 2 things.

No one has defended the mooted changes as no one, who has not lived in other areas where this is already implemented, has any real idea how much/little it will impact in them.

You see to be ignoring those who post from experience and now you are scoffing at someone who, unlike yourself, sees the benefits in reducing consumer waste.

None so blind, as they say!

OP, you look to be shopping in Morrisons who sell loose produce. Why are you buying all that prettily pre-wrapped (and tasteless) stuff?

Aldi are a pain because much of the veg is prewrapped, but not all of it. Lower-waste shopping is perfectly possible.

taking reusable bags is not difficult. My MIL does that and she travels by bus, so I'm sure the rest of you can cope.

I'm a bus and a flat person and have mobility problems. If I can manage I'm sure most people can. Re supermarkets using too much packaging on eg fruit and veg (but also true of other goods) what's stopping you complaining? Asking them to change this? I do regularly. Although I agree if the cost affected them as happens in Europe I suspect they'd soon change their ways. The worst culprits are the big brands though and they're mostly USA based and the USA have an appallingly lax attitude to the small (in terms of impact on individuals) changes that can make a big difference.

Don't even get me started on our govts sycophantic pandering to the oil magnates in general meaning our entire global economy is largely based on this finite resource.

YANBU

I agree entirely with the point you are making, and have made the same point, that plastic bag use might decline, but bin liner use may increase as a result.

We always used carrier bags in our bins and never bought bin liners. I started using reusable bags for my shopping (I just find them easier to pack at the checkout and load to/from the car than carrier bags) and as a consequence I now have to buy rolls of bin liners.

The plastic bag thing is not a serious attempt at reducing plastic use. It smacked of 'greenwashing' when M&S started charging for their bags, whilst still selling four apples packaged in a plastic tray, with a plastic lid and a plastic wrapper. And this new law is the same.

I have used bags for life for years and am happy to do so. However, I do prefer to put raw meat in a bag I can throw away in case of leakage. I know bags for life can be washed or wiped but I'm always a bit worried about meat juices.
I've done it since I had a leaky Turkey in a bag for life one xmS and didn't figure out what the smell was for a bit!!

Subject I shop online with Morrison's. And no you can't get figs, strawberries, bluenerries, ripe avocados etc not pre wrapped.

Thanks Ann - I agree 100% its just a greenwash and not a serious attempt to change anything.

Bin liners don't get thrown away in the street or make their way to the Pacific in such great amounts.

If your argument is 'It's not fair, now I have to buy bin bags' then the only response is 'great, maybe everyone will buy and use them responsibly, unlike the common use of carrier bags'

Rufus so enlighten us, what have you done that is a serious attempt to make things better?

Are clothes shops etc, ie. non food outlets charging for bags now as well?

www.gov.uk/guidance/carrier-bag-charges-retailers-responsibilities

Yes. It applies to all retailers in varied ways. I suspect that this is what OP is really bothered by... though the exceptions aren't all that odd or difficult to remember.

Pointing out double standards is not complaining it's not fair. Fairness doesn't come into it.

I was told to 'get a grip' when I started a thread years ago about Sainsburys issuing plastic credit card-style receipts for their Xmas turkey orders, as well as a paper receipt. Granted there are worse problems in the world but it irritated me because it showed their lack of commitment to really reducing waste, unless there was a marketing advantage to it.

Yes Ann that is just annoying, no need for things like that. Its like when hotels put these big signs up saying they care about the environment and to only put your towels in the bath if you need fresh ones. But in fact they don't give a fuck about the environment as the plastic cups and plastic bottles for toiletry s show, they just get charged per towel that is washed so want to do less of it. Just be honest.

Think it applys to all shops that have under 250 employees. The owness is put on the customer to ask for a bag where they are entitled to a free one. Razorblades you get one, knives you dont I think.

Sorry, will be charging, from 5 October?