Plastic bag law is a waste of time

[Rufusgy]

Normal plastic bags are so thin and create hardly Any waste and many people reuse them. I use them to line my bins. So now will have to buy bin bags, that are usually thicker with more plastic.

These bags for life use a lot of plastic and I've seen study's that they waste far far more as they get grotty and people bin them after a dozen or so uses.

If they really wanted to make a change how about getting rid of all the plastic veg comes in or have a plastic bottle deposit scheme?

Its still all this stuff about a free bag if you buy raw fish or razor blades.

Attached a pic of my veg and all the plastic trays!

and I don't know anyone who doesn't use carrier bags instead of buying bin liners shrugs

They are tiny and full of holes though.

Spun by elves from unicorn hair.

It would bloody well need to be at £68!

Oh, I can assure you it is.

I use carrier bags to line my non kitchen bins but that is only 3 a week (some just stay and we empty them out) I have a small stash to keep me going a while.

I think shops will find it the hardest, I get so annoyed at the times I stand there with a bag in my hand, say I don't need a bag and yet it still gets put into a carrier for me. I also wonder how shops like one of my local Home Bargains will manage as there is no 'end' conveyor, there is just some bags (like at the self service tills) and they put the things straight into a bag.

plenty my jute bags must be more or less 10yrs old. They were made by Jute Expo so carbon neutral and they have been used on average weekly for all that time (except holidays etc) - so say around 500 times. Looking at that table I've done it - and that was comparing cotton and not jute and not carbon neutral (and cotton and jute can be composted - in that report it says they can't!).
And that is saying the bags are equivalent sizes.... and they really aren't.
As I said upthread I can carry 3-4 times as much in one bag as a supermarket carrier bag (thinking about last shop - one bag held six tins of cat food, 4 cartons of fruit juice, a couple of large yoghurts, cheeses, ham, more light things like herbs and 12 eggs) ...so you could argue that I have saved 1500 - 2000 plastic carrier bags for each one. I use 4-5 a week (have 6 - and an Ikea big blue bag - only replaced cos I lost the old one somewhere). Say 4 that's 6-8000 carrier bags saved.
DP occasionally brings home a disposal bag - I use as bin liners but I empty household bins straight into the wheelie bin - so I replace them I would guess every 2 months - kitchen bin every month (we recycle food waste etc so they don't get mucky). I also use plastic bags that eg deliveries come in as liners too - I use the plastic bags that loo rolls etc come in as liners for the bathroom bin...I haven't needed to buy bin liners (and don't generally use black bin bags).

That is a good idea about the loo roll bags, hadn't thought of using them. May not be hugely successful as I have a small bin and get the 9 roll packets, but I'll give it try.

unlucky - bully for you! Most people will not use their non-carbon-neutral jute or cotton bags 400+ times without washing them though.

The government sponsored study I linked to does take size into consideration: To make the comparison fair, we considered the impacts from the number of bags required to carry one month's shopping.

BTW, your Jutexpo bags are only carbon-neutral because they offset.

What's the big deal about washing bags? They go in a load of washing that's being done anyway, they barely take up any space.

Every item in your load of washing goes in a load that's being done anyway. It all adds up.

Yes, but the occasional wash of a cloth bag that takes as much space as a pair of pants is pretty incidental.

bully for you! Most people will not use their non-carbon-neutral jute or cotton bags 400+ times without washing them though.

Do come to my house. I can introduce you to them. I've never washed my bags.

Hmmm - I've never washed mine either ...in 10 yrs. But then unless you have a spill why do you need to? Everything is in sealed packets - the shelves and packages probably get more contamination from handling by packers, shelf stackers and customers...so really not worried about transfer of germs etc...
(and everything in supermarkets are so over packaged that actually there is small risk of a spill happening)

"The only things they wrap in plastic is fresh meat & fish and I always decline the offer of double wrapping it." Why can't they use greaseproof paper or foil? Both recyclable?

Re bin bags get biodegradable ones.

www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=compostable+bags+30+litre&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=30270820374&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=294593813101105905&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=t&ref=pd_sl_9pc7fsjxcc_b

"- you can't recycle wet paper can you?" Of course you can it's only water.

PlentyOfPubeGardens yea because a study conducted by a GOVT agency in 2006 (when they were arguing against doing this) won't be biased at all.

Mine are 5 years old I'm sure they're well on their way to being acceptable and have loads of use left in them.

'What's the big deal about washing bags? They go in a load of washing that's being done anyway, they barely take up any space.' And rarely need washed anyway.

is this seriously your main concern? How many tiny bins do you have in your house? Here, knock yourself out.

It's part of a gradual shift in getting individuals to be more accountable for their usage, no-one's saying it's going to stop global warming on its own or anything. It's worked very well in NI, can't believe it's taken so long for England to catch up. We get a paper bag with hot food and plastic with stuff from the butchers/deli (but if you really wanted you could bring your own grease proof I suppose); clothes and other retailers can give paper ones out for free but most choose to charge. Kielhs is the only one I can think of that don't charge for paper bags. When I think of how many bags I used to throw away it makes me a bit guilty; now I don't think anything of carrying around a tiny fold up one in my handbag and I'm happy to pay the princely sum of 5p if I forget it. Only bad thing is DP will often buy shit and say, "Can you put this in your handbag?" as he doesn't want to use a bag for life with daschunds on it.

Too tired to read all the thread,
Regarding (over) wrapped fruits, I just saw a show yesterday where they explained why:
Costumers find it easer not to choose veggies individually, they also buy more and they also feel that it is more hygenic.
Agree it is a shocking practice.

Regarding plastic packaging on fruit and veg, food waste is a much bigger problem. The plastic package has been design to make food last longer. Studies show that the environmental impact of the wasted food is much higher than the impact of the plastic package.

For example a few years ago Co op removed the plastic film from cucumbers in a bid to be more environmentally friendly however then now use them again, as it has been proven that cucumber last on average 3 weeks longer with plastic film on.

I was quite surprised to find this out, having raged against over packaging in the past.

Does depend what you buy as to if they get grubby.

If you just buy cerial and crisps they won't.

If you buy fruit and veg they will.

It's part of a gradual shift in getting individuals to be more accountable for their usage, no-one's saying it's going to stop global warming on its own or anything.

Exactly. It makes you think and as said above give it 10 years and the idea that we used to get free bags will seem like smoking on aeroplanes.

I put fruit and veg in mine that are never washed - it is all bagged/packaged in one way or another...
I guess if you were buying unwashed loose potatoes it would get mucky but then I'd keep a bag just for muddy potatoes...(germs are a non-issue - soil is full of nasties anyway -why you wash and/or peel things grown in the earth) - just tip the excess dried loose mud out every so often...

PlentyOfPubeGardens yea because a study conducted by a GOVT agency in 2006 (when they were arguing against doing this) won't be biased at all.

It was conducted in 2006 but not published. It was eventually leaked to the press in 2011. Officially it's still in peer review. I don't think the results were convenient. Interesting background here. I'd love to read something more up to date and published by someone else if you have it

At the moment, even WRAP don't give a clear answer on which type of bag is best to use. Their advice: All types of carrier bag, whether made from plastic, paper or jute, will have some impact on the environment during the manufacturing process, transportation and ultimate disposal. The best way to reduce their carbon footprint is to simply re-use them as many times as possible and then recycle them at the end of their useful life.

Exactly. It makes you think and as said above give it 10 years and the idea that we used to get free bags will seem like smoking on aeroplanes.

Or the green washing gives people a false sense of acheivent that by using some other bag the planet is saved, and they can not bother with any more green stuff.

Cotton is pretty bad for the enviornment and the huge amount of monoculture and pesticdes used in its production.

Actually, yeah - you're right. The rest of the UK has brought it in with no complaints but actually it's just green washing gone mad.

And they won't let us smoke in pubs anymore, the bastards.

I hope your shoes, clothes, plates and cutlery are disposable as well, all that energy that goes into their manufacture - and those fuckers really do need a wash!

So, rufus, it isn't the plastic or the cotton that is the problem. It is the fuckwit humans who use them!

Cos we are all terminally stupid, selfish, lazy, etc. Right?

Again I ask, what would you do,oh wise one?

So reading between the lines here Rufus and Plenty don't buy into this whole 'save the planet' thing and don't like the idea of being told what to do by lentil weavers.