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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I'm sooooo cross! Kids who are rude and disobedient

96 replies

Chairmanofthebored · 13/09/2015 17:54

Not sure why I'm posting this here but I didn't get much of a response on parenting thread. I am trying so, so hard to remain calm around my two DC. I am just truly exasperated at the sheer bloody cheek of them sometimes. Dd who is 7 has just been appallingly rude when I asked her to come in from playing. I'd given her a 5 min countdown and was polite and calm but still receive a sassy response and had to stand on doorstep for a few minutes while she argued with me in front of neighbours child. What should I have done? Dragged her in by her hair or stood gently coaxing her in? I am sometimes at a complete loss to know what to do.
Ds who is 4 has shouted, kicked and hit me today when he hasn't got his own way. Last week I went to GP who gave me Valium as I've been suffering with a horrible tight feeling in my chest most days. I am finding it hard to not take it all personally.
I'm reading how to get kids to talk book and have been really trying hard to try and be calm and understanding, I'm really trying. Please be gentle, has anyone got any tips?

OP posts:
Blackcloudsbrightsky · 13/09/2015 17:55

I once carried my DS in when he ignored me. He hasn't done it since!

Chairmanofthebored · 13/09/2015 18:06

But I knew neighbours were loitering by their door within earshot! Otherwise I might have done it!

OP posts:
firefly78 · 13/09/2015 18:07

no ideas but my 2 are the same age so I'm interested to see responses!

UntilTheCowsComeHome · 13/09/2015 18:08

What should I have done? Dragged her in by her hair or stood gently coaxing her in

I'd have dragged her in by her arm and told her in no uncertain terms that she better not dare speak to me like that again.

But then I think I'm rather strict compared to some parents.

Sunshineandsilverbirch · 13/09/2015 18:11

Calm and understanding is fine as a general principle but you are in charge and they have to know that.

In the circumstances you describe today I would have used a very firm, short, sharp but quiet 'in, NOW" while deploying my 'do not mess with mummy' face.

I'm not a big fan of counting down personally.

I expect my children to do what they are told first time on every occasion.

Now of course, they don't always, but they know that is the expectation and that if I have to call them more than twice there will be a 'conversation' about good manners. This will not be fun for anyone.

My children are generally very well behaved but we are pretty strict on expected standards of behaviour. They are fully aware that bad behaviour is not a good idea.

We rarely have shouting. I don't do naughty step, countdowns or sticker charts. We put very firm rules and high standards in place from very early on.

The same standards apply to any child who comes to play. No one misbehaves at my house.

You need to work on your 'don't mess with Mummy' face and voice. You are in charge, you need to look and sound like you mean it.

ghostyslovesheep · 13/09/2015 18:12

absolutely do NOT let them talk to you like that in front of their mates - I'd be cutting her off with a very stern 'do NOT speak to me like that' and if it persists or she refused to come in she's be grounded

TwllBach · 13/09/2015 18:12

OP I don't think you need to worry about the neighbours, honestly! Do what you think is best and who cares what they think? I'd have dragged her in

wickedwaterwitch · 13/09/2015 18:13

Try:

Distraction - "look what I've got here!" (But have something)
Brief time outs and "no hitting" in response to hitting you. But also praise good behaviour, downplay the other stuff
Boys need plenty of running around IME
"See if you can get in before I count to 10"

They're both still small so I think cut them some slack. 7 year olds arent generally trying to annoy you, they're just testing boundaries and rules.

Well done on staying calm!

cariadlet · 13/09/2015 18:13

I start with asking politely in a gentle voice. But if dd doesn't do as she is told after a couple of times then I put on my "teacher voice" - my voice gets a bit lower, I use a firm tone and I tell her rather than asking her to do something. Sometimes I can stand still and give her a "Paddington stare" (phrase dating back to my childhood and the books, rather than the film) and just look at her.

It doesn't work if she's lost it and having a strop. But it does work if she is in control of her emotions and is just trying it on.

btw I'd have no qualms about picking up dd and carrying her in. The only thing that would stop me is that she's now 13 and it would kill my back!

Sunshineandsilverbirch · 13/09/2015 18:14

Chairman seriously what have the neighbours got to do with it? They'd have more respect for you dealing effectively with your child than arguing with a 7yo (sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but it is true)

wickedwaterwitch · 13/09/2015 18:14

And I don't think dragging children is nice so no, I don't think you should have dragged her!

Scobberlotcher · 13/09/2015 18:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sunshineandsilverbirch · 13/09/2015 18:17

I have to say I disagree with Wicked that you cut them some slack for being little. Children don't magically grow into good behaviour - you have to teach them what is expected.

We were far more strict with our DC at 3-4 yo than we are now at 7yo.

Leave it too late and it's, well, too late.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 13/09/2015 18:17

Firstly I would like to say well done for having the courage to admit about their unwanted behaviour it isn't easy to do that even anonymously on an internet forum. You're a wonderful mum, which shows in you wanting to change their behaviour, so that is a massive start.
I second what cow says. Also if you make any threats it is absolutely vital that you go through with them, eg if you say ? If you don't tidy your room then you are not going to play then if they do not tidy their room. They should not be allowed out to play.
I just hope we don't get any of the My kids are saints and would never behave like that coming on. Challenging behaviour is bloody hard enough with out being made to think You've got the only badly behaved children in the world

Sunshineandsilverbirch · 13/09/2015 18:19

Wicked I'm sure no one is advocating hauling her in by the hair but a firm hand on the shoulder is perfectly acceptable.

Ilikedmyoldusernamebetter · 13/09/2015 18:23

I had a point where I realised my control was slipping slightly and I was asking or negotiating too often, and making empty threats or threatening to tell DH Blush

Getting it back depends on the basic principle which you and everyone else already know/s - be consistent and have known, consistent rewards consequences and follow through on them always.

Of course that is easy to say and sometimes very hard to do.

Of course you also have to pick your battles (and we all know all this stuff already but forget it in the heat of the moment every day).

I'd pick one thing - say coming in when told. For a while have a strong sanction which you can and will apply if there is argument - for example no TV/ screens for the rest of the evening if you argue at all. Only threaten something you are willing to do - so if no TV and screens will make your evening hell and you can't face enforcing it say half an hour alone in her room, or dock pocket money, or anything you know will matter to the DC in question and you will be able to enforce/ bring yourself to enforce every time.

We also do a marble jar reward system for all 3 kids in combination sporadically, when the group behaviour slips. Set a reward they all/ both want (for example cinema trip or day trip). Marble jar starts half full. Any random good behaviour or helpfulness by any child and a marble goes in, any bad behaviour and it comes out. When the jar is full you have to take them on the promised trip within the next few days, or obviously the jar doesn't motivate next time! It works on the dreaded peer pressure system teachers use in class to a degree but is effective - I don't think it would be if done continually, so I just bring it out once every three or four months when needed.

I emphasise to my kids there are some rules they have to follow so that I can keep them safe - for example staying within defined parameters when playing out, always being where they have said they will be (coming home to tell me if they want to go to a different neighbourhood child's garden than the one they set out for or than the playground) and being back at a preset time or when I call. If they break these rules they go to their room alone for a full hour (there no electronics in their rooms) and are then not allowed out without me for the rest of the day. I hate this as I like them to play out :o but it works - eldest has been allowed to play out for over 4 years and DC2 for nearly 3 and they've only violated the rules once each (and tbh not seriously, just been to a different approved friend's house without coming home and saying first, so they were not where I immediately thought they were when I went to fetch them in). The punishment really worked and sunk in but so does knowing their freedom is dependant on following the rules, and that I have the rules to keep them safe.

Chairmanofthebored · 13/09/2015 18:26

Don't get me wrong, i did the stern face/voice and did give her a stern talking to when she came in. She seems sometimes to be immune to my telling her off, as if she's really not bothered by it. She does a lot of distracting techniques and avoiding looking at me while I'm telling her that her behaviour has been out of line. It drives me so mad, its as much as I can do not to give her a clip round the ear. Obviously I don't! In the end I just told her I am so cross with her that she needs to run her own bath and get herself washed and ready for bed as I don't even want to be in the same room.

With my son I picked him up and put him in his room and said no hitting, no shouting, and he can come out when he's calm. Its all just so draining!
The other flash point this week has been her point blank refusal to learn her spellings and times table for school tomorrow. I gave up in the end and am leaving her to face the consequences at school tomorrow. I've written a note for her teacher to explain that she is refusing to do it and perhaps the teacher can have a word. Normally I would come down hard on her but I'm just trying a different approach this time.

OP posts:
Preminstreltension · 13/09/2015 18:28

A frogmarch with a firm grip and a "don't you ever speak to me like that" plus terrifying glare. All the better if it's in front of an audience - then she knows you are always in charge, whether friends are round, neighbours looking on, whatever.

Gently coaxing is hopeless. We have a gently coaxing mum at school and no one will invite her dd for play dates as she's bad mannered and won't leave when it's time to go home. Mum stands on the doorstep gently coaxing for half an hour - while I fume and think Get some authority, woman! Absolutely nothing wrong with manhandling a child out of the door in this situation.

RachelZoe · 13/09/2015 18:29

I'm very strict, I don't go in for all this gentle "please do as mummy says sweetie" kind of thing, my children are very loved and loving, very happy and balanced people, there is a middle ground between coaxing and hair pulling! Not every child responds to strict parenting, not every child responds to gentle parenting, I don't believe people should box themselves into a category, sometimes kids need to know who is in charge and calm and understanding has to go on the backburner for a bit.

I would have done the countdown, if she didn't come in I would have said "please come in immediately or I will bring you inside myself" and if she didn't do I would have pulled her in, not forcefully or aggressively, but hand firmly on arm/shoulder and bring her inside. I then would have explained to her that that kind of thing wasn't appropriate and that being allowed to play out with her mates was a privilege that can be taken away if she abused it.

Like others have said, it is vital you follow through with consequences.

Why do the neighbours being there matter? I'm sorry you're not feeling well, I hope the Valium has given you a bit of relief.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 13/09/2015 18:32

Fully agree with Prem. It is vital that you're never or at least never show you're embarrassed to instill discipline no matter who is around. Because children can often pick up on that

MammaTJ · 13/09/2015 18:33

I would have acknowledged the fact that she was playing up in front of an audience and shot that down right away.

Something like 'Don't speak to me like that just because your friend is there, it impresses no one. Get in now or you will be grounded and an extra punishment thrown in for your cheek'.

That usually does the trick.

RachelZoe · 13/09/2015 18:33

The other flash point this week has been her point blank refusal to learn her spellings and times table for school tomorrow. I gave up in the end and am leaving her to face the consequences at school tomorrow. I've written a note for her teacher to explain that she is refusing to do it and perhaps the teacher can have a word.

This is exactly the right and only approach IME/O. Children's homework is their responsibility and they need to learn that they are responsible for their own actions and to deal with consequences of their own making. I would stick with this approach if I were you.

Sunshineandsilverbirch · 13/09/2015 18:36

Chairman it is very hard. So Flowers and Cake.

Personally though I wouldn't have given up on the homework. You just make it harder for yourself next time.

One if mine hates homework but she knows that despite crying/distractions etc etc it will get done and that Mummy will sit there as long as it takes.

I'm afraid that there are no quick fixes, you need to be strict all the time. The rules need to be applied all the time.

That doesn't mean shouting and arguing it means quiet, firm and completely unwavering standards. With appropriate sanctions.

Chairmanofthebored · 13/09/2015 18:37

The thing is I have tried both approaches. In other circumstances I've tried counting down and taking away privileges. Works to some degree but doesn't stop the bad behaviour in the future. Mine are very strong willed and we do get to a stale mate situation sometimes. I did say to her either she comes in herself or I will bring her in. I also explained that she would not be allowed to play outside if she does it again. Next time she wants to play out I will get her to swear to a set of rules first and if she doesn't manage it she will not play out again.
I'm just tired of it all. I never knew it would be so bloody hard. I feel like I'm failing at the job that most people seem to manage effortlessly or without taking it all so personally!

OP posts:
Goldmandra · 13/09/2015 18:39

Try to use natural consequences.

You have done this by letting her teacher know she is refusing to do her homework and telling her to do her own bath.

You could tell her that, if she can't be polite or cooperative about coming in, she won't be able to play out. Next time she wants to go out, say no and explain why. The following time, remind her that she needs to come in immediately she is asked this time or you will decide that she can't be allowed to play out again.