I'm sooooo cross! Kids who are rude and disobedient

[Chairmanofthebored]

Not sure why I'm posting this here but I didn't get much of a response on parenting thread. I am trying so, so hard to remain calm around my two DC. I am just truly exasperated at the sheer bloody cheek of them sometimes. Dd who is 7 has just been appallingly rude when I asked her to come in from playing. I'd given her a 5 min countdown and was polite and calm but still receive a sassy response and had to stand on doorstep for a few minutes while she argued with me in front of neighbours child. What should I have done? Dragged her in by her hair or stood gently coaxing her in? I am sometimes at a complete loss to know what to do.
Ds who is 4 has shouted, kicked and hit me today when he hasn't got his own way. Last week I went to GP who gave me Valium as I've been suffering with a horrible tight feeling in my chest most days. I am finding it hard to not take it all personally.
I'm reading how to get kids to talk book and have been really trying hard to try and be calm and understanding, I'm really trying. Please be gentle, has anyone got any tips?

Why was she out playing when she hadn't learned her spellings?

No playing out until homework's done.

Chairman I'm sure you aren't failing at all, it's just that parenting is a long haul.

No one does it effortlessly. It's years and years of hard work.

But there's two conflicting (and sensible) pieces of advice right there about the homework! How do you know which approach is best? I end up trying both approaches but then I'm being inconsistent! I just don't know. I'm no push over that's for sure but I just think that with the homework thing it was doing no good to keep on and on. Each time we sat down to do it she moaned and squirmed and cried and tantrumed. It's ridiculous. I've always said no TV if she's not done her homework. Maybe I should go back to that approach again then! I sat down with her and went through the options with her
1, not do the homework at all
2, do 2 spellings a day
3, leave it for tonight (this was Wed night)and do it tomorrow.
We decided together on the last option but the next day she just sodded about and it still didn't get done. All this negotiating sounds good in principle but it certainly backfired on me this week!

I often have to carry 7yo dd in while she kicks and hits me. That's after I've chased her across the grass . The neighbours still talk to me, let the kids play around there and let their kids play at ours. I've not been ostracised yet.

Her big brother is much better and comes in, when he's meant to after a 5 min warning.

I did say to her either she comes in herself or I will bring her in

But did you bring her in when she immediately didn't come inside? Your OP says she argued with you on the step for some time etc. Consistency really is the key, very firm, every single time, then an ingrained pattern takes place that they know not to push against. This takes a fair chunk of time so needs sticking with. Let nothing slide.

Goldmandra is right about the natural consequences and that going out pattern to follow.

Most people do not find parenting effortless or easy, it can seem that way I know, but everyone struggles, they really do. Perhaps you should talk to your GP about a longer term treatment like talking therapies or anti depressants, you sound very tired and very down with yourself. Valium is a short term treatment and maybe talking this out with someone might be helpful.

I would speak to her teacher about the homework. Explain that you'd rather not punish at home and allow her to take the consequences at school. I think that makes far more sense, TBH, as it then becomes her responsibility to do it when you remind her, not your job to try to find a way to make her do it.

If the teacher won't be giving her any consequences, you're wasting your time and energy trying to get her to do it in the first place.

I also explained that she would not be allowed to play outside if she does it again. Next time she wants to play out I will get her to swear to a set of rules first and if she doesn't manage it she will not play out again.

I think I crossed posts with you here.

The first move is to say no to playing out. Let her kick off if she wants to and stand your ground. The next day, explain the rules again and allow her out. If she breaks the rules, she doesn't go out next time. You have to allow her to experience the consequence before expecting it to change her behaviour.

You have to look on everything connected with school as her "job". Just as her parents can enjoy themselves after work, so can she. If homework is given then it MUST be done on the day. Your DD can decide how but you have to check it's done. Excuses to the teacher via notes are not on IMO.

In our house there is the "three times" rule. I will tell you to do something once nicely, the second time is pointed out "second time of telling" and the third time I will be cross and there will be consequences. Mine never go beyond the second!

I disagree Goldmandra homework should just be done because otherwise there are consequences- it has value in its own right. Homework needs to be completed because it is important to your learning.

I agree with Mythical and Sgt work before play every time.

I'm sorry OP according to your post you didn't negotiate - you gave in.

the issue i have with my two is constant bickering. the older one tells tales on the little one and youngest one winds up the little one and gets a sneaky punch in im sure im never sure the best way to handle this!!

homework should just be done because otherwise there are consequences

In an ideal world, yes, but, when the parent is struggling with other behaviour, it is one battle that can be left to school to manage. Teachers are quite well enough equipped to deal with it and some don't insist it is completed anyway.

Agree with Goldmandra and others re the homework, and also that she should have done homework before going out to play.

RE getting her in, maybe try and give her a choice? This gives her power. But make the choices obvious. EG

• I'm going to give out an eaty treat, if you aren't inside when I do this, you won't get one.
• We're going to decide what game to play once you get inside, if you aren't here when we decide, you won't get to choose
• Please come in now or you will go to bed early tonight - your choice.

Your 7 yr old is being treated with FAR too much credit.

If she won't do her part of the bargain, then she doesn't get to play out alone or watch telly.

The only way she plays out is when she has done her homework. The only time that TV goes on is when her home work is done.

If she DOES play out, she comes back when she's supposed to, or she either has you supervising her like you would her baby brother, or she gets taken in. She can tantrum as much as she likes, it just lengthens the no TV rule.

The 4 yr old is picking up on the 7yo's behaviour, so get down to his level and say that under no circumstances does he EVER hit, kick or shout at you or he will go to be with no story, or won't be doing things he likes to do until he behaves better.

They are sensing they have you on the ropes here, but they absolutely don't. You have this, you absolutely do have this and can turn it round.

You are trying to stay calm, but kids are looking to find your limit. So show them! Shout! Raise your voice and show them.

Go hard but fair, and set clear periods of TV withdrawal/grounding and stick to it. Kids need to know when they have gone too far.

What you did with the homework was a good call, but it's homework, it is on your watch and it needs doing. As your dd can't be trusted to negotiate honestly with you, she loses the right to choose when she does it. Only when she proves she's mature enough to be trusted to make decisions and stick to them will she have the freedom again to make those decisions.

I say again, you can do this.

You don't mention a partner, do you have support?

Watching with interest. My 7yo ds has been a bit mouthy and disrespectful recently. It just seems to be a phase (hopefully), and testing the boundaries. I always say very firmly "Excuse me? Who do you think you're talking to? You don't speak to me like that". I usually get an apology, and he speaks to me properly afterwards. But he does seem to need reminding very often. I just have to carry on picking him up on it I suppose. If I let one rude comment slip, then it will get worse.

for you OP. It's not easy, and you're doing great.

If I let one rude comment slip, then it will get worse.

Absolutely.

My 9 yo tries yhe odd comment and I pull him up every time. They can not talk to us without understanding that there has to be respect and manners.

It's a normal phase, most do this, but it's them testing boundaries to see where the lines are. They have to do it, we have to show them.

Try will keep coming back at us, we have to keep showing them the rules.

If it's any consolation, their own kids will be exactly the same! :)

My 11yo DD was rude to me today while we were out shopping for clothes for her. So I turned on my heel and we left. I explained to her that I am giving up my time and money to buy her partywear and that I see no reason why I should also tolerate rudeness.

Mine are the same .
I am just place marking, and going back to read the thread.

I feel I am failing them

I'm just so tired of it all.

And your kids know it too. As hard as it is, perhaps you need to stop showing them how it so obviously affects you. You're their audience and they are doing really well...make it it a bit less successful? Enforce disciplinary measures - eg. tell DD you expect her inside in 5 minutes, if not, she can't go outside tomorrow. Then follow through with that. Go back inside, have a cup of tea, and if DD isn't back in, well - that's it, isn't it? Just smile all the way through.

It takes practice, but it's easier when they are younger, and you shouldn't have too many issues then when they are older. Best of luck.

No I wouldn't drag her in but nor would I be worried about my neighbours listening in. Perhaps your Dd relies on the fact you won't disapline her in front of people? And is suspect your neighbour would have more respect for you if you dealt with it firmly.

I would have said "DD you were given a warning, come inside now or you don't go out tomorrow". I would the. Have turned my back on her and walked away. She can only argue with you if you are there to argue with!
Then I wouldn't have listened to her if she raged - that's why bathroom doors having locks are fab or discussed it further.

I'm in the camp of they make their choices and live with then consequences of them.

For your ds hitting etc, tell him you understand he's cross but hitting is not ok. Tell him to stop or go and sit somewhere to calm down and you'll talk to him when he's ready. Again, walk away if he choses to carry on.

Don't react to the behaviour they use designed to get your attention. Lots of praise for the good behaviour you want to see more of.

OP I really feel for you. I've been there loads of times. In that situation (and only with hindsight!) I would have got down to your DD's level, holding her by the shoulders and said sternly but quietly to her "You've got two choices here, you either come in now, by yourself without making a fuss, or I will manually lift you in, like a baby, in front of your friend, and if I have to do that, you will additionally lose the TV for the rest of the day. Now I don't care which option you choose, because either way you will be inside my house within five seconds. Make your choice now". If she wasn't close enough to do the whole getting getting down to her level thing, I would have said exactly the same thing out loud, in front of the neighbours and all.

We've used this "the outcome will be the same whichever process you chose, just one way will be better for you" a few times on our very willfull 7 yo DS and it seems to work.

Crazyboo and youaren'tkiddingme but what do you do when the child still won't come in? I expect the OP did say to her daughter 'if you don't come in, you aren't going out to play tomorrow'. I know if I said that to my son, he'd say 'fine, I don't want to go out tomorrow anyway/I don't like playing on my computer anyway/I don't care if i stay in my room all afternoon'. What do you do if all the threats you have don't work and the child is still defying you?

no offence but counting down is ineffective esp when you have been trying to use it for some years.
you should have dragged her in yes, not by her hair obviously.

I expect my children to do what they are told first time on every occasion.

Child abusers operate on the same principle. It's not a great lesson to teach them TBH.

Neeps Never got to that stage. That's why it's best to start earlier rather than later. They'll get hungry/cold/scared/whatever before long. They have needs and wants, like anyone. You just have to last longer than they do - you're the adult. That's my theory anyway