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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I'm sooooo cross! Kids who are rude and disobedient

96 replies

Chairmanofthebored · 13/09/2015 17:54

Not sure why I'm posting this here but I didn't get much of a response on parenting thread. I am trying so, so hard to remain calm around my two DC. I am just truly exasperated at the sheer bloody cheek of them sometimes. Dd who is 7 has just been appallingly rude when I asked her to come in from playing. I'd given her a 5 min countdown and was polite and calm but still receive a sassy response and had to stand on doorstep for a few minutes while she argued with me in front of neighbours child. What should I have done? Dragged her in by her hair or stood gently coaxing her in? I am sometimes at a complete loss to know what to do.
Ds who is 4 has shouted, kicked and hit me today when he hasn't got his own way. Last week I went to GP who gave me Valium as I've been suffering with a horrible tight feeling in my chest most days. I am finding it hard to not take it all personally.
I'm reading how to get kids to talk book and have been really trying hard to try and be calm and understanding, I'm really trying. Please be gentle, has anyone got any tips?

OP posts:
HeyDuggee · 14/09/2015 08:15

Does she do something she knows is non negotiable? Like brushing teeth with toddlers? I still remember from being a child myself that homework was just like that. There wasn't an option of NOT doing it.

There were also huge consequences of not having your homework done the next day (loud shocked gasps from classmates as teacher brought the class to a standstill when told you didn't have your homework done and no parent note to hand in). The social peer pressure I think was so overwhelming, my parents only had to argue about when I'd do it, not if I do it.

maddening · 14/09/2015 08:17

I think i would have said "you better get to your bedroom before I do to remove xy or z"

InimitableJeeves · 14/09/2015 08:30

Neeps, if your child is saying something like "Fine, I don't want to go out tomorrow anyway" or "I didn't want to play with my computer anyway", it is pretty certain that he doesn't actually mean it and will regret it when he actually is prevented from going outside or playing with his computer. If you are in any doubt about it, you can escalate - e.g. "OK, you aren't playing outside OR watching TV".

00100001 · 14/09/2015 08:46

Yes the the child who says "I don't care about x" is fibbing and calling your bluff.

You can say " fine, you don't care. You're still not having x" and follow through

neepsandtatties · 14/09/2015 09:03

Imitable, 00100001 I would do that, and I always follow through, but I'd still have my DS outside the house refusing to come in! He's that willful!

I think Crazybo has nailed it - with 'normal' children it never gets to that stage because either through more effective parenting when younger, or a naturally compliant child, the threats would work.

OP, the one thing that always works for my DS (but I hate resorting to it, as I know it is terrible parenting) is to threaten to write about his behaviour in his school diary. He loves school and is perfectly behaved there, so the threat of his teachers knowing what he is like at home always works.

Mrsjayy · 14/09/2015 09:10

I wouldnt have stood arguing with a 7 year old in the street i would have gone and got her took her hand and took her in and then not let her out to play the next day i think you are giving her to much say in what happens this is why you are arguing with her

harboromummy · 14/09/2015 09:35

I'm a strict mummy.

I would have roared at her to get in this house now and to never speak to me like that again.

Preminstreltension · 14/09/2015 10:50

disappointedone I don't really know where to start...

I actually recognise your underlying point - that children need to be encouraged to access their inner sense that certain things are not right and that teaching meek compliance at all times to all people can be unhelpful. I certainly tell my children that they don't have to be polite if they think something feels wrong.

But obeying trusted caregivers when they tell you to come indoors....not the same thing. My 6 year old can tell the difference between obeying me when I tell him to do something and obeying a child abuser.

I do believe that parents need to have authority. My home is very loving but I am the person in authority and my children know that.

00100001 · 14/09/2015 11:02

neeps then leave him outside. He'll come in eventually. once he realises no-one is paying him attention/gets cold.bored/hungry.

Once he's in explain the consequence and apply it.

DisappointedOne · 14/09/2015 11:22

I agree (I think) Preminstrel. But as the parent in authority I wouldn't be letting my child go out to play (something they won't want to stop doing) before they'd done what needed doing. DD is 4 and has reading books sent home. We don't make it something to stress about or argue about, and she knows once she's done it she can choose something fun to do. That habit will hopefully mean that at 7/8/9 she'll understand that the "need to do" has to come before the "want to do".

DisappointedOne · 14/09/2015 11:25

Eg, this morning she wanted to write a note with a new pen she got over the weekend. I told her that we had xx minutes to get ready for school and that if she could get ready in less time she could write the note. She had a good 5 minutes of doing what she wanted to because she cooperated with what needed doing. She could have chosen to faff around instead, but there was an incentive for her not to, rather than needing threats and punishment (horrible) after the event.

Mrsjayy · 14/09/2015 12:47

Yes teaching them to needs done is important so need to come in from playing at xoclock is a need and outweighs wants children imo need consistancy to function properly they need to know where the line is

dustarr73 · 14/09/2015 13:04

I had this the other day,brought the 3 of them out and they where nothing but whiny,moany.I told them if there was another word out of them we where going home.And in to bed for the day.

So thats what happened.They where in bed for the whole of the Saturday.Sometimes they have to realise there are consequences of their behaviour.

Sunshineandsilverbirch · 14/09/2015 13:24

Disappointed those are interesting links but I think both articles are working from a false premise. The appear to be assuming that you can only have well behaved children if you treat them as little robots, only providing instructions and never engaging with them. Furthermore that this parenting style never wavers until adulthood.

Who parents like that? Who advocates parenting like that?

My children are very well behaved and as I said up thread I expect them to do what they are told first time. That does not mean there isn't room for discussion, debate, explanation or negotiation.

It's far more sophisticated than that.

My children are well behaved but they aren't terrified little robots or compliant little nonentities. They are lively, bright, enquiring little people. They 'test boundaries' every day, but they don't need to scream, kick, hit or disobey in order to do it.

In the example the OP gave of not coming in from playing, my children might well try to negotiate (politely) for extra time. They might be successful if their arguments were reasonable and nicely put.

If their request was declined, they'd be given a clear (and polite) explanation of why not and a clear indication that further argument would be fruitless.

As they get older we'll obviously adjust our parenting accordingly and they'll have more independence and responsibility for their own decision making.

I really, really hate this idea that the only choice your have is terrified, compliant, robot with mean, drill sergeant parents or spirited, 'testing', characters with hand wringing parents.

It does both parents and children a disservice.

00100001 · 14/09/2015 14:13

the problem is you need to have children that will listen to authority, therwise they wouldn't be safe or happy or productive members of society.

You have to be albe to say "No" and have them listen, what would happen if kids do whatever they please? Running into roads, running by pools, shouting... hitting... kicking...biting...

Obedience isn't just "How high?" when Mum says "Jump" - obedience is doing what is reasonably asked of you. Doesn't mean you can't question, but obedience is knowing your place in the societal structure. Kids are not at the top and nor should they be. It's a natural dominance thing. Kids settle in once they know who is in charge, a 7 year old hasn't got the skills or authority to be at the 'top' of the pack,so they have toe the line.

Teaching your child that they are without limits and can question every tiny decision is not productive. Learning to pick your battles is what is important and that comes from experience. Teaching your child to question every tiny thing and disobey authority results in them being disruptive to society, even in small ways.

FI we all did as we pleased with no consequence, we'd run riot. It is generally the consequence that prevents us from doing something (e.g .robbing a bank) and as an adult you weigh up the risks and choose perhaps not do it.

As a five year old who has not been set boundaries or consequences, how can you possibly learn to do this?

And sometimes in life, you just have to put up with things. Another vital skill ans lesson that some people seem not to be able to want to teach their child "becasue I said so" happens every day in your adult life, and 99/100 you accept it and don't' question it. Because you've learnt how to function in society.

DisappointedOne · 14/09/2015 14:20

I can't agree with you. I was raised to question things and have based a (long) career on asking "why do you do that?" and identifying better alternatives that benefit individuals, employers and wider society. I've never stood for "because I said so".

(As an aside, I wonder whether so many school/university leavers are so feeble in the workplace - needing spoon feeding and hand holding - is because they've been raised to follow directions set by others rather than problem solving themselves.)

DisappointedOne · 14/09/2015 14:20

(I've also never robbed a bank. Wink)

00100001 · 14/09/2015 14:23

yes but disappointed do you question every tiny little thing in life?

Sunshineandsilverbirch · 14/09/2015 14:25

001 I agree. I know my children get very frustrated by kids who continually disrupt the class, shouting out, not able to follow rules, arguing with the teacher.

None of which will make them either popular or in the long term employable.

I'm not sure at what magical point children are meant to just start fitting in with societal norms if they've never been taught them.

00100001 · 14/09/2015 14:28

I suspect people are feeble because they're not encouraged to be independent any more - I means seriously, some 14 year olds aren't allowed out on their own? I have 19 year olds who can't make a cup of tea. or take ownership of their own problems and resolve things themselves.

You see it all the time (especially on MN) people protect and doo too much their children. 14? no too young to be at the shops alone, I'll go with them. 18? No still a child and should have no responsibility. 7? Oh wow it's been 30 minutes since you last ate, here have a snack.

DisappointedOne · 14/09/2015 15:13

yes but disappointed do you question every tiny little thing in life?

Of course not. Did I say anyone should?

DisappointedOne · 14/09/2015 15:19

I'm not sure at what magical point children are meant to just start fitting in with societal norms if they've never been taught them.

A) societal norms change - usually as a result of individuals questioning them
B) teaching the reason behind them and discussing it enables the child to decide whether they want to fit in with it.

The ONLY thing that would make me consider fitting in with the societal norm of santa is if DD expressly wanted me to. Otherwise society can fuck off. Someone else has a thread about being a non-drinker v the societal norm of drinking and is being actively encouraged to continue not fitting into it. It's normal to break motorway speed limits (when safe). It's normal to feed your kids MacDonalds as a "treat" (another thing I don't do). The societal norm is to send your kids to school - not everyone does.

BertieBotts · 14/09/2015 15:48

I have carried mine in kicking and screaming but it doesn't seem to put him off Confused I've had to do it several times. He is six, not a toddler.