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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Barrister claiming sexism after Linked-In message

429 replies

Flashbangandgone · 10/09/2015 14:20

AIBU to think she's overreacting somewhat... I'm not sure so I thought I'd check out views on here:

www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34206080/linkedin-sexism-row-charlotte-proudman-says-lawyer-used-site-like-tinder

She is clearly very attractive, and she has clearly gone to some trouble to post a photo that emphasises that. If a man compliments her for that, albeit rather clumsily, but nonetheless not in any lewd or crude manner, is that sexist or just a man gently flirting in the hope of a positive response?

If something as relatively innocuous as this appears to be is vilified as sexism, what are the boundaries for men flirting in a work-place environment without risking being charged with sexism? I wonder if her response would have been different if she had been single and she happenned to be attracted to the man making those remarks...

I've a feeling this might be controversial....

OP posts:
BoffinMum · 11/09/2015 17:28

I am cynical about this. I think she knows full well what she is doing here and it is not just about calling someone on sexism. I think she is seeking publicity. I think ACS was inappropriate but she is also playing the ingenue here when she is trying to market herself in a particular way.

I would not want her representing me after this, to be quite frank.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 11/09/2015 17:29

weary you have clearly never worked in the law Smile.

Law firms and solicitors offices tend to be quite bonkers with lots of opinionated people having lots of opinions. There are arguments, enormous amounts of swearing. There are battles of will and feuds.

And many many lawyers are very successful because they are kick ass, because they won't take any shit.

The person who made an appalling error of judgement here is ACS. And he has been called out on it.

Foamshrimp · 11/09/2015 17:38

Surely you agree with the principle that the punishment must fit the crime though Bobo. I am sure we have all written things in e mails we considered private even in a professional context which may have been ill advised. We don't necessarily expect or deserve national publicity for them though.

Wearyheadedlady · 11/09/2015 17:39

Shegot. I'm not talking about behavior in offices, am I? I fully appreciate they can be as nuts as everyone else. But that is in the offices.

I am talking about taking a public stand - putting your personal reaction out there, as an official stance in a way that looks knee-jerk as opposed to being considered and thoughtful.

Yes of course that silly old man should never have said what he said. He is probably mortified and rightly so.

BoboChic · 11/09/2015 17:48

I'm not sure being highly offensive "in private" deserves a private response so that the perpetrator gets away with the crime. That sounds like suggesting that victims of domestic abuse shouldn't go to the police because the crime was carried out by the perpetrator in the privacy of home. Self-defense is perfectly legitimate - I applaud it.

Wearyheadedlady · 11/09/2015 17:50

Bobo you're way off the mark with what I have said. We are not discussing domestic abuse here.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 11/09/2015 17:55

But it's a good analogy weary

Being offensive in private is not okay. And most of us realise this. Private recrimination does not work, it does not stop men like ACS carrying on.

In the press one of his ex colleagues described him as 'having no filter'. So we can assume he is not usually a picture of judgement. This might actually stop him.

BoboChic · 11/09/2015 17:55

I was replying to Foamshrimp with an analogy.

Foamshrimp · 11/09/2015 17:59

Of course domestic violence and sexual abuse deserve exposure and of course you should not be able to hide behind privacy for illegal actions.

Original poster
Flashbangandgone · 11/09/2015 18:00

Inappropriate maybe but to call his behaviour 'highly offensive' is way over the top. In fact it's ridiculous!

OP posts:
Foamshrimp · 11/09/2015 18:05

Would you think it fair then if an ill advised e mail you sent to a work colleague ended up in the national news?

Foamshrimp · 11/09/2015 18:09

A complaint to the regulator will stop poor behaviour though. That to me would be a more proportionate and measured response.

Wearyheadedlady · 11/09/2015 18:15

Well they do say, never put anything in writing you don't want read by everyone (or similar, please correct me if someone knows the real wording).

Sorry Bobo. (I can't write your full name it keeps auto correcting to Robotics.)

SheGotAllDaMoves · 11/09/2015 18:18

foam I would not send a sexist email to a colleague. I understand about propriety in the work place.

However, I understand all too well about sexism in the work place and how some men have been getting away with it for years. In part because complaints have been dealt with 'privately'.

And taking this to the regulator would not have been the way forward. They are notoriously slow and notoriously toothless.

CP's actions have ensured that this man won't do it again. And hopefully other men like him. Which is a good result for women.

Wearyheadedlady · 11/09/2015 18:20

CP's actions have ensured that this man won't do it again. And hopefully other men like him. Which is a good result for women.

So wish this were true, and that we could rely on it every time someone took a stance against something, but seriously doubt it. Real world here, sadly.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 11/09/2015 18:26

weary oh these things work.

Sure, ACS and his like will huff and puff about how you can't have any fun any more, but they will think twice before allowing their wives to know what they're up to. Ditto their colleagues.

The firm where ACS is a partner have not rushed to his defence.

Wearyheadedlady · 11/09/2015 18:31

Well they won't rush to his defense because what he did was probably just enough outside of the workplace, not related to a client or a potential one, that they think the best thing to do is keep silent on the matter. Which is usually is.

Wearyheadedlady · 11/09/2015 18:32

I have enjoyed discussing this with you though SHegot. Thank you. My day has been a lot more lively today as a result.

BoffinMum · 11/09/2015 18:32

Well I think Proudman looks like a school prefect with a pencil stuck up her arse and even though I am very keen for people to be called on sexism, I think the way she has dealt with it is quite extraordinary and I am not sure entirely helpful to the cause.

The fact that his chambers hasn't leapt to his defence may mean that they don't think it dignifies a public response, frankly.

BoffinMum · 11/09/2015 18:35

The comment was ambiguous, therefore IMO a measured response would have been a firm, "I don't think you meant that to come across quite as crassly as it has done. Would you like to rephrase?" or some such.

BoboChic · 11/09/2015 18:36

BoffinMum - the reason ACS' chambers are saying nothing is that they want the whole thing to die down ASAP - not fan the flames.

BoffinMum · 11/09/2015 18:36

Well that is measured in itself.

BoboChic · 11/09/2015 18:38

Why would a private passive aggressive response appropriate or helpful? For ages women were taught to be passive aggressive because being assertive was considered unladylike. It was ineffectual and made women frustrated and powerless.

HeighHoghItsBacktoWorkIGo · 11/09/2015 18:38

Of course he was a bit of jerk, but her reaction seemed over the top to me. I think she was attention seeking. It reminds me of an interesting article in the Atlantic Monthly:
www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-rise-of-victimhood-culture/404794/#disqus_thread

Who wants to work with someone who airs petty grievances publicly rather than having a quiet word and moving on?

BoboChic · 11/09/2015 18:38

Not measured - self-serving.