to be fucking beyond furious with my ten year old daughter

[ovaryhill]

Had a call from fraud prevention at my bank today
Daughter has been playing Movistar Planet and has taken my bank acard nd spent £266 over the past couple of months!!!
I'm so upset I could cry

middleaged totally agree and do feel the op has both done that now and acted in a measured sensible way.

Jacques: Ceyes - I agree. I never said that the OP SHOULD try and get the money back from anyone but the child.

No, you didn't, but a PP did a few pages back - she said her son had done exactly the same and they got a refund from iTunes, seemingly advocating that the OP should do the same - which is what I was addressing.

She's learned her lesson that her Mum is furious with her and disappointed in her! That stealing will always be uncovered. That she can't go on spending money on cards without serious consequence. Isn't it obvious??

What serious consequences? Her dolls being put in the attic? How in god's name is that a serious consequence?

ceyes and Ten you both just sound so vicious.

I stole some money when I was around the same age as the OP's daughter, funnily enough aged 50 I've turned out reasonably ok and no my parents didn't sell my precious dolls or whatever. They were very angry and ashamed of me and omg I still remember how I felt to this day.

I'm not particularly with the bleeding heart liberals but your punishments and just Dickensian.

Cancelling Christmas and selling the dolls would just make the daughter hate the mother I would imagine which doesn't really achieve much does it

AGAIN FOR THOSE WHO SEEM TO HAVE TROUBLE READING:

I am not advocating cancelling Christmas. I am advocating selling possessions to recoup the lost money (ie dolls). That is not Dickensian. Get over yourself.

Well I think it is personally.

Dickensian would be:

• starving the child
• beating the child
• sending them to a workhouse
• sending to bed with no sheets or warm bedding

I suggest you reread some Dickens.

I've read plenty of Dickens thanks, I sort of thought we'd moved on a bit since then though .

The problem here is that with computer access, debit/credit card details stored online etc, the ability for kids to steal in this way or to run up massive bills is there in a way that it just wasn't in the past. I remember stealing loose change from my DM when I was 10ish but we're talking 10p here and there because that what I had access to when I nipped to the shop for her. It was still stealing though and she was rightly furious when she found out. I also turned out ok and am not a professional thief nowadays.

So in my mind the amount of money taken is immaterial as it's more about the attitude which tbh isn't that unusual for kids this age. My DN (12) has just done very similar with online games and my DB is fuming with him. They want things, see a way to get it and don't truly understand the value of that much money. They also think they won't get found out and the need to get what they want out ways potential consequences.

As a parent there has to be some element of responsibility for not checking the passwords or making sure you know where your card is etc.

Here you go again- why are you so obsessed with the punishment being a 'serious' consequence- it's weird?

Alice, I fundamentally disagree with this BS advice being presented as 'good parental technique'. There is no way in hell I would be 'supportive' of it, to me, cruelty to children is morally repugnant. I have principles that I stick to and won't sacrifice for some notion of fake camaraderie because we're 'all parents'. I can categorically say there are no 'good' bits from some of this advice on this threadthat I would use as a parent.

anna we have. You don't seem to think so though, since you equate parenting with torture. Spare me the hyperbole.

Ceyes03, I've agreed with most of what you've been saying, but there's no point wasting your energy on here. Apparently, even though in law, a 10 could be punished in court over such a thing. A 10 year old is pre-pubesant, not a toddler. A 10 year old usually has the cognition to understand right from wrong and that stealing isn't just 'bad', it's illegal and can have long term consequences. I can only imagine those who are crying 'horrible punishment', have not had a family member (or anyone else) steal from them, how devastated you feel when someone you love has disrespected your possessions/money so much. An adult in this case would most likely have to answer to the police. It's not a 'small amount', not that's the point anyway - for someone like me, that is half a months rent for example. It could have serious implications and knock on effects on day to day life. The only way to counter that is to absolutely bring home the lesson of how serious this action is.

I used to think I was a bit soft and liberal, but MN at times . I have to agree, I think this is why some young people are growing into difficult people. The parents refuses to see it, because they are deluded that their kids are so wonderful and well adjusted. I've known a few of these (very entitled) kids in my life, they love laughing about the things they got away with behind mummy and daddy's back. It's just as bad as those who are overly punished when children are young (by that I mean severe, not abusive punishment).

The problem here is that with computer access, debit/credit card details stored online etc, the ability for kids to steal in this way or to run up massive bills is there in a way that it just wasn't in the past.

A practical solution was suggested ...

I just don't understand how you think selling something very precious to the daughter will 'make' her understand the consequences of what she has done? She's 10 years old ffs. My son did something similar at the same age and whilst I was very angry I do believe that they are being tempted beyond belief with these on-line games and purchasing opportunities. A lot of adults can't cope with that temptation, what hope does a child have.

MrsGently a child probably wouldn't steal £266 from a stranger or a place though - we tend to push our parents and our behaviour with them to the limits in a way we wouldn't anywhere else hopefully because we don't expect them to thrash the living daylights out of us if we get caught.

MrsG you've got it in one.

Anna ignoring all the guff of pretending a 10 year old doesn't understand their actions, do you seriously not think that describing selling (not even all but a SMALL amount of) the child's possessions, not as a sadistic punishment, but to recoup the money they now owe is NOTHING like how a child was treated in Dickensian times? Do you not think that's just exaggerating just a little teeny tiny fucking enormous bit? How the hell am I supposed to take your viewpoint seriously, even for one second?

WHO IS SAYING THRASH THE KID????

Honestly, I'm all for spirited debate but I just despair of some people.

cruelty to children is morally repugnant.

To those of you basically comparing selling the dolls to child abuse, you seriously need to get a grip (I'm ignoring the cancelling Xmas part, many have threatened it, I've never seen it carried out).

It's really offensive for someone like myself who suffered mental and physical abuse from a parent to read 'oh the cruelty of taking some dolls'. I wish that had been my worst punishment as a child. Instead, I get to literally carry around the scars of my parents 'over enthuisatic' punishments. There is a chasm of difference of a severe punishment for a severe action (as is here), and one that leaves true mental scars for the rest of your life.

Ok I am exaggerating to make the point and I apologise to those who've suffered true abuse as a child but I still maintain that all the cancelling christmas stuff from ceyes and others saying sell the dolls is a step too far. The daughter can pay the money back in other ways i.e. forfeiting all future birthday and christmas money or earning it back by doing chores.

She will just end up hating her mother otherwise and that is hardly a desirable outcome is it?

Don't sell the dollsfrankly, I think you should be encouraging her to find non-games-related ways to spend her time, not selling the toys. And do not cancel Christmasthat is just dragging the whole thing out and will make everyone miserable.

DO get rid of her "fun" (non-essential) electronic devices and make it clear that this has happened because she lost your trust and she will have to win it back. And do NOT allow her unsupervised time on any other devices in the future until she is a lot older.

She did very wrong here, but as others have said, you do have to take some responsibility for not supervising her. It could have been worse--I have heard of small children being groomed online.

Take it as a lesson for you both. Other people have made similar mistakes--hopefully, neither of you will make the same mistake again.

Why are so convinced she'll hate her? I don't understand how that is a foregone conclusion.

Did you all have toys taken away for some horrifically unfair punishment as a child and are carrying this resentment around?

MrsGently a child probably wouldn't steal £266 from a stranger or a place though - we tend to push our parents and our behaviour with them to the limits in a way we wouldn't anywhere else hopefully because we don't expect them to thrash the living daylights out of us if we get caught.

Perhaps, but I also believe if you have the gall to steal from your family, it takes even less to take from a 'faceless stranger', or a shop when a bit older. Doing it once, being very sorry for it, OK I think I'd be more lenient as well. However, doing it over and over even in a short space of time, that suggest that a person only wanted to satisfy their wants and didn't care who paid for it. That can lead to a bad habit of 'I see it, I want it, I'll have it no matter what'.

Alice, I fundamentally disagree with this BS advice being presented as 'good parental technique'. There is no way in hell I would be 'supportive' of it, to me, cruelty to children is morally repugnant. I have principles that I stick to and won't sacrifice for some notion of fake camaraderie because we're 'all parents'. I can categorically say there are no 'good' bits from some of this advice on this threadthat I would use as a parent.

Goldenbear I don't necessarily agree with some of the parenting advice on here either, and I wouldn't use it. Getting into a slanging match with other parents over it, however, serves no purpose. You're not going to change their minds, they're not going to change theirs. You can offer up a suggestion for the OP, as others have done, and the OP will decide what she wants to do. It's not a competition. She asked for advice, and she's gotten quite a variety of responses. The sniping and arguing and basically shitting all over other posters (not specifically by you, just in general) is unnecessary. Nobody is the "winner" here.

Ten no I didn't, I gave an example up thread about how I stole money as a child, I don't even remember what the punishment was but the shame and anger of my parents remains very strong in my mind and it was 40 years ago! They didn't ever sell my toys no, it's just lashing out in my opinion to consider or advise doing so to the OP.

MrsGently I did steal (just the once, aged 10) and I've never stolen again and would find it abhorrent to consider doing so therefore I don't consider it more likely that a child would go on and steal from a stranger.

I think the daughter carried on doing it because she hadn't been caught and hadn't recognised the consequences of being found out. If she was 15 I would have a quite different opinion but 10 really is pretty young.

This is known as family fraud by Apple/Google. It is worth contacting whoever the gadget is with and asking if they will refund