to be fucking beyond furious with my ten year old daughter

[ovaryhill]

Had a call from fraud prevention at my bank today
Daughter has been playing Movistar Planet and has taken my bank acard nd spent £266 over the past couple of months!!!
I'm so upset I could cry

[PavlovtheCat]

I always agree with SGB since forever too. Or rather, she always agrees with me. Because actually she copies what I'm going to say, just gets there waaay before I do.

[Chanel45]

FFS of course I wouldn't bloody shout so loud that she would be petrified and hide under her bed. I was being dramatic.

I would shout yes, because I'd be pretty angry and that would be it really, it would all blow over very quickly is what I'm trying to convey.

I wouldn't draw it out for ages ie up till Christmas for instance. And there would be no punishment such as selling dolls, truly awful in my opinion to even want to do that. I would not be using this as an excuse to punish my DC.

We'd have a chat about it. I'd threaten to stop internet access but that would last a day probably. It's not something I think my DD or DS would do tbh and if they did I'd be really surprised.

[Chanel45]

I'd like to pretend I wouldn't shout, maybe I wouldn't who knows, but I kind of presume I might.

[SilverNightFairy]

I'm happy you are working towards a resolution, Op. That first flush of anger and disappointment is so hard to cope with. You can get overwhelmed trying to understand exactly how and why an incident occurred. I have had to remove myself several times from somewhat similar situations to give myself the opportunity to think about how I was going to deal with the aftermath.
You seem to be well on your way to a positive outcome...and really, I don't believe your dd is headed for a life of wickedness and crime..

[ovaryhill]

Thank you silvernight

[MissHooliesCardigan]

Totally agree with SGB and Pavlov. OP, I think you've handled this perfectly. My 15 year old DS did a similar thing a few years ago. The outcomes that I wanted were for him to understand that he'd done wrong, to be genuinely sorry and not to do it again. We achieved that without being vindictive and spiteful which would have been counter-productive. I know my child and I could tell that knowing how upset and disappointed his parents were was devastating to him. I went to watch his band play yesterday evening - DS and his friend organised a fundraising evening at school for The Red Cross. Next month he's sitting an entrance exam for a full scholarship to a private 6th form. He's most definitely not a 'little shit', he's a lovely kind teenager who did something wrong and stupid when he was a kid, just like loads of kids do. We are the first generation to be raising kids who have easy access to addictive games and can spend hundreds of pounds with a few clicks of a keyboard. We're all feeling our way to a certain extent.
And to the PP who said that what this girl did was 'abhorrent', don't be ridiculous. Tormenting animals or deliberately inflicting pain on someone is abhorrent.

[differentnameforthis]

Ohhhh, well that's OK then And where did I say it was ok??

but do you really think the people who break the law just wake up one day at age (say) 17 and decide to start acting irresponsibly? No, they don't wake up thinking it, but some do...some people get desperate & steal to pay bills, or they steal from the supermarket in order to feed their kids.

I stole as a kid. Not proud of it, and it was mostly form my parents. But I did once steal a sweet from a shop. I think I was 8.

I don't steal as an adult and I am haven't turned into a master criminal.

but intentionally depriving them as a punishment is cruelty imo. Good point, and it would technically be theft. Because I bet the ones advocating that here wouldn't be asking their kids if it was OK. So if op did this, she would be stealing from her child in order to "teach" her daughter that you don't steal Bit like when you hit a child for hitting someone while saying "we don't hit people"

That's why I'm getting quite cross and upset at what some people consider cruel on this thread...The level if ignorance and the throwing around of the word 'cruel' is really belittling to those who actually suffered child cruelty. And my mother was cruel to me, but not once did it involved anything physical. It doesn't have to be physical to be cruel. I don't feel it is belittling. Cruelty comes in all sorts of shapes & sizes. No one of us have the edge because we believe we suffered "proper" cruelty!

[MrsGentlyBenevolent]

And my mother was cruel to me, but not once did it involved anything physical. It doesn't have to be physical to be cruel. I don't feel it is belittling. Cruelty comes in all sorts of shapes & sizes. No one of us have the edge because we believe we suffered "proper" cruelty

1. Do you not think a parent who was physically abusive wasn't also emotionally so as well? I don't believe I suffered proper cruelty, I know I did. Much worse things than losing a few toys. I don't have anxiety attacks over having my Barbies taken from me. I do over being called a useless bitch, whilst being dragged around the room by my hair. See the difference?
   

1. Just because you don't think it belittles real child abuse to say taking toys away is cruelty, doesn't make you 'more right' than myself.
   

1. It's not the same as stealing from your child to make them realise the magnitude of what they have stolen or when they have done something seriously wrong, more so than the usual 'naughty behaviour'. One of my siblings once did something incredibley dangerous with their scooter. They didn't come to harm, but it was only through pure luck. They lost the scooter, as they obviously couldn't be trusted with it. Does that count as stealing as well? Its all well and good saying a child loves their possessions, but adults need money. It's not really relevant I guess, but I'm truly shocked that hardly anyone on here thinks the amount of money lost to the op is a big deal. I guess most on here can afford to lose that much, without it being a worry to them. If my child did it to me right now though, things would have to be sold, just to cover food and electric. If I went by MN advice, not only would I have lost my money, I'd have to sell my possessions just to keep going. But that's absolutely fine, as long as a child doesn't get told off too much .

[Gruntfuttock]

I agree with you 100%, MrsGB

[Dancergirl]

Much worse things than losing a few toys

mrsg I am very sorry to hear what you suffered as a child. But the severity of abuse that you experienced does not make other children's experiences (which were perhaps less severe or even minor) less painful for them.

[MrsGentlyBenevolent]

mrsg I am very sorry to hear what you suffered as a child. But the severity of abuse that you experienced does not make other children's experiences (which were perhaps less severe or even minor) less painful for them.

Don't get me wrong, I know it seems 'melodramatic' to compare my own experience to this situation. However, I truly believe some people have confused the idea of a 'severe' punishment and a 'cruel and abusive' punishment. The former to me is usually the result of something severe done by the child, something that has to highlight that 'this is beyond the usual'. The latter is continued 'punishment', usually disproportionate to the action and will very likely cause long term issues with the child. Let's put it this way, if anyone would have reported a parent to SS (for example) for a parent selling these dolls, within the context given would they think it was worth investigating? I highly doubt it. As opposed to a child having no toys, due to a parenting selling them 'for unknown reasons', that suggests some form of abuse or cruelty happening. I have said myself, that in this context, I don't think the toys need to be sold (unless the op is in need of some of the money back). As I suggested a few pages back, I would say gather the toys in groups, worth the same amount of money. Then the child chooses which group to live without for a short time, that way there's an understanding of both 'loss' and what things are physically worth. If it happened again though, no, I don't think a punishment of selling some toys is too harsh, obviously the lesson was not learned the first time (not saying it will happen again!).

[Skiptonlass]

Agree with pavlov above...

What do we want to achieve when we discipline a child? Do we want to -

A.) make their only deterrent from wrongdoing fear - creating a child who only refrains from doing wrong if there's a chance they'll be caught.
Or
B.) create a child who understands that their actions have consequences in the real world and refrains from doing wrong because they have an innate sense of right and wrong?

To me, b seems more sensible. There's a line to be walked between being a soft touch and being cruel. Kids do need discipline and boundaries, and these need to be rigorous and scrupulously fair. I know a few kids who are decent but need a bit more 'no' in their lives and I worry about them - they just don't seem to have the guidance framework they need.

That's not to say if they steal they shouldn't be punished - they should. But the punishment should include both a retributive aspect AND the rehabilitative aspect. And it should be proportionate. and in line with the history of the child.

As a child, I was far, far more upset by having my parents angry at me than I was by the prospect of getting belted by a teacher. I've grown into a very law abiding citizen (last week dh and I realised we'd not paid for a yoghurt that had slipped behind a bag in the trolley in the supermarket...we hot footed it back to the checkout to apologise and pay, or neither of us would have slept ..)

[differentnameforthis]

mrsg I am very sorry to hear what you suffered as a child. But the severity of abuse that you experienced does not make other children's experiences (which were perhaps less severe or even minor) less painful for them.

Exactly.

Mrsg, for the sake of not derailing this thread any further, I'd like you to know that I agree with the above, as well as the sentiment of being sorry that you lived what you did.

You are getting very heated & to be fair, rather in danger of making this thread about you. You had your experiences & I (and many many more) had theirs. Let's not get into competitive "comparing crap childhoods"

[differentnameforthis]

Oh & meant to say that punishments don't have to be severe in order to work, imo. If you are describing a punishment as severe, I think it rather oversteps the line & you (general you, not you personally) need to rethink your parenting strategies.

[MrsGentlyBenevolent]

Fine, I apologise. I was trying to make a general point, using my own experience, not getting 'heated'. Although, anyone would get cross when something as terrible as abuse and cruelty was minimised to 'poor kid, might loose her toys, she only stole a large amount of money, poor thing'.

Any other time on here people were using trivial examples as a form of abuse, would be quite rightly pulled up on. However, seems as a child, just looking at them the wrong way constitutes 'cruel' these days. How wrong of me to give an opinion otherwise. I will say though, just because you think a punishment is 'severe', doesn't make it 'wrong', it only makes you a different kind of parent. Not better, just different. A lot of people on here very much on their high horse about how they parent. Only takes one big event that you don't see coming, like the OP, to make you realise you may not have it down as well as you think you do.

[ovaryhill]

Mrsgently I couldn't agree more with your last sentence
Obviously I've heard of my scenario with other people but not in a million years did I think one of mine would do such a thing
As the mother of now grown up boys who are now we'll adjusted and settled , some of the scrapes they got themselves into as teenagers would have had you wondering what the hell you had done wrong
They have turned out fabulously
We all think it'll never happen to us but , sometimes, it just does
I'm all for 'there but for the grace of god go I'
Its easy to judge but sometimes good kids and good adults do bad things and it's not the end of the world, just a learning curve for everyone

[MrsGentlyBenevolent]

Ovary, my sister was a star, right up until her mid teens (raised elsewhere to me, I might mention, had a lovely upbringing). Then, she made the mistake of taking up drugs. No one saw it coming, she had been a model child, never caused issues, she just wanted to fit in with her 'mates'. I was shocked, and disappointed in her to say the least. It never went to the super hard stuff, but for a little while I just couldn't see her as my beloved sister, she had quite frankly broken my heart with her behaviour. However, it wasn't forever, and making a bad choice, that ended with consequence, made her a better person in the end. Sorry, not trying to 'make it about me' again, I just know how different it is when you think 'I'd support family no matter what', to the actual shock and disappointment you actually feel when it does happen. It's natural to feel this way, to be angry with them, yourself. Wondering how it got to that place, did you miss something? Bad things happen, people of all ages make silly, selfish choices. But, there's always a light at the end of it.

[Goldenbear]

The definition of 'severe' would suggest that 'severe' punishments 'are' wrong. It is not just a question of 'difference', a difference can be tolerated, if I thought 'severe' discipline was 'ok' then I would implement it myself. It therefore 'is' wrong IMO.

[mellicauli]

It's funny, isn't it, how we (myself included, further up thread, selling toys & the like) are so hung up on punishing the child?

Surely we should be getting mad at the games company and wanting to punish them? I did have a look at the site. It's not exactly straightforward to understand how much money will be taken off you and when. How can we expect a 10 year old to have the necessary

Shouldn't we also be telling ourselves off just a little bit? We know there's no such thing as a free lunch. So aren't we a bit na??ve letting our kids playing "free" games, where rather than everyone getting charged ??2 per game, one mug in a hundred is fleeced for ??200 for buying "diamonds" or "coins". And for that matter, why aren't we teaching our kids that online "diamonds" have no intrinsic value, that you are really just buying air?

[Nilzaneva24]

Hello there, sorry to hear you are going through this. I'm there right now and I know is not pleasant.
Here's my story, but firstly, everyone beware of this company. Do not hand your personal payment details. It's a scam!!!!! We made a one of purchase for £9.99 (I believe 1 month membership) since then they have taken payments from my husbands PayPal account without the need of a password which leads us to believe they save your payment details unlawfully. I will now be pursuing this company and fingers crossed I can get anywhere. I suggest you do the same, don't let them get away with it! I logged into her account and clicked on buy coins and I took me directly to PayPal pay now, no password required =O I have researched this company since and there's many victims of their scams. Also, I went into the chat and surprise! Sexual comments going on, avoid totally. They have not responded my emails, mums like you and I should team up and report them to the correspondent authorities. Your daughter is not the card holder therefore she is not able to use your card and if she did the payment should be invalid, as she is your daughter and a minor I doubt she would be pursued for fraud but instead this company needs to be held accountable for scamming children with very little judgement. I personally will send them a letter recorded delivery.
Will update you on how it goes.
All the best and cheer up

[goodnightdarthvader1]

Cool story, bro.

[Justaboy]

One of my daughter's hacked my e-bay account and paypal and bought a few toys from some suppliers.

I did give her a telling off and was quite impressed with her hacking skills.

She was 7 years old at the time!

She's now doing a "hard science" subject at a Russell group Uni!

[MySordidCakeSecret]

The thing is.. yanbu to be furious, what she did was wrong.

BUT i play one of these online games, and the lure of in game purchases is huge. They're very good at heaping pressure on to purchase things and often it's the only way to become established in the game.

If she was my daughter i'd delete her account, so she no longer reaps the benefits of her theft. I'd also confiscate her use of the device for a period and get her to work out how she wishes to pay you back whether via selling posessions or earning it.

[19lottie82]

Justaboy how did a 7 year old "hack" you eBay and PayPal accounts? Do you mean you left
Yourself logged in? Or she managed to get a copy of your passwords?

[19lottie82]

Nilzaneva24...... You "believe" you signed up for a 1 month membership via PayPal? So you didn't check the small print? It sounds to me like you signed up for a recurring payment with PayPal and didn't read the small print at he time. Sorry.