To keep shouting, they are refugees! !!

[ginmakesitallok]

And not migrants!!!!

The people who are dying on Europe's shores are not migrants! They are not coming to Europe for jobs, for benefits, because they think it will be an easy life. They are escaping war, ISIS, starvation, rape, death. They just want to live and give their children an opportunity to live.

Stop calling them migrants, as if they just fancy living somewhere else. Brits rearing abroad are migrants. Other eu residents coming here are migrants. The dead baby on a beach in Greece was a refugee.

Yet again the right wing on here are displaying their utter contempt for the rest of humanity.

Your luck at being born here is not a sign of your superiority, your luck at having some personal success is not either. Have some empathy for once in your life.

None of these people are "economic migrants" moving for a better life, if you knew that actually if they get here and can claim benefits they get £33 a week and a bed in a hostel/camp somewhere. How bad must your life be if you think £33 a week is good? How bad must your life be if you travel across the sea in a dinghy to get away from what is going on in your country?

BTW has anyone considered the facts that Germany, France and most other European countries have more refugees than us and even though the camps at Calais are bulging we are not the chosen destination as painted by the right wing press? One reason why people might want to come here, rather than our meager benefits, its cause the people coming can speak English rather than German/French.

Conflict and misery are world wide and much of it has been partially caused by the actions of OUR governments in Iraq, Lybia, Syria, or the failure to act in humanitarian ways in others. So please "annoyed" of Tunbridge Wells types, clutch your pearls somewhere else.

You can keep telling yourself that Stripey.

I used to work with people who'd come here seeking asylum. The fifteen year old Eretrean lad who was fucking traumatised by escaping some very dangerous men after his brother and mum died might have a different point of view to you.

Stripey, having been accused of borderline racist opinions on several threads on this topic recently, maybe it's time to consider why people are saying this?

I cannot believe how many people seem to believe themselves that other people are willing to put their children through such a horrifying, risky experience just to get a "few more quid" in benefits in the UK. Facebook at the moment is almost offensive.

longtimelurker Why don't you allow one of these poor refugees to come and live with you for a bit?

Gladly Flowers, thanks.

Why don't you get a better argument point than that? We can do something to help here, we can help to alleviate human misery. So far we have taken 5,000 refugees from Syria not many is it.

Every country needs to work together for this

Indeed and I believe the UK is at the forefront of monetary aid. Does anyone have figures for past refugees and asylum seekers we have taken?

Uk has more migrants in the population than somewhere like Germany.

What are Romania, Bulgaria, Russia and Saudi all doing? How many are they taking?

100's of migrants are coming into UK all the time, just un officially. Kent is being over whelmed with children they are trying to process.

What is America, Australia, NZ all doing and all the other countries of the world.

Why don't you allow one of these poor refugees to come and live with you for a bit?

How do you know s/he wouldn't be willing? I would be. Actually my SIL did take in some refugees from Bosnia, I know a lot of other French families did the same. And apparently lots of Germans are doing so now.

What response were you expecting (or wanting) when you asked the question?

longtime x posted.
I had a feeling that would be your response

Why don't you allow one of these poor refugees to come and live with you for a bit?

Cant. The WM government won't let them in.

Attention needs to be given not just to Europe's responsibilities but neighbouring countries not in conflict. Saudi is just over the border. From a language and culture point of view it would make sense for Saudi to be opening their borders too.

Its not a case of what are they doing, they are doing nothing so we should do nothing, its a case of simply what the hell are the gulf states doing to help their fellow muslims? Of course it makes sense for these countries to be under pressure to do more.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/02/how-many-refugees-uk-take-migrant-crisis-europe-yvette-cooper

v interesting article

Stripey, having been accused of borderline racist opinions on several threads on this topic recently, maybe it's time to consider why people are saying this?

Your point would have some relevance if it wasn't the same idiots accusing people of racism every time they disagree.....

Thanks IKnow

I've decided to disengage from Mumsnet for a bit as no discussion is allowed and very dissenting voice is immediately crushed. It is now such an intolerant place. Shame really, as there used to be some interesting discussions, rather than whole threads of posters falling over themselves to agree with each other.

Adios!

I haven't accused anyone of racism, but I agree that Stripey's posts are looking that way. So it would seem that IKnow's accusation about "the same idiots" is blown out of the water from the start. What a surprise.

You may get a 'ffs!!' response for daring to enquire. Diplomats need to push the Middle East to accommodate refugees as well as Europe taking a percentage too.

The problem in many in this thread are missing the latter part - they think that there are many other countries that should be welcoming the refugees so we don't have to... If other countries don't step up, we can "apply pressure" but no more, and that certainly shouldnt have any impact on our own response.

Stripey, who exactly is preventing you from discussing this issue or "crushing" your dissenting voice? So far as I can see, all your posts are still there. Or can't you handle people who disagree with your opinions and tell you so?

And as for children drowning, absolutely tragic but it is the parents of the child pictured in the media who are responsible for putting him in such danger by going to sea in a rubber dinghy.

Yeah I guess the parents thought it would be well lolz to do that, despite knowing that there was a real possibility that their kids would die. You only live once right? Live on the edge! They just don't care about their children in the way that we do, because they are not the same as.us.......

FFS

Well to be fair, I was accused of posting "shit" because I pointed out that using the legally correct term of migrants for those who haven't applied for asylum is unobjectionable. And that labelling all migrants from Syria refugees is objectionable. I actually find labelling all people wishing to move from one area in a way that suggests that they are all desperate quite racist. I can imagine a left wing discussion about semantics of one word if it were the other way around - the media channels tended to use the word "refugees" and mumsnet posters thought it a bad word and should be replaced with migrants...

I think the word "migrants" is far less judgmental than "refugees" and helps people preserve their dignity, particularly when they are not in a far off country on tv but trying to integrate towards some semblance of decent life in the state in which they end up.

So it would seem that IKnow's accusation about "the same idiots" is blown out of the water from the start.

If the cap fits.....

What an inane response, IKnow.

TBH I'm not bothered what people call them.

The actual status is the same whether they're "refugees", "migrants", "Illegal immigrants", "swarms", "Flocks" etc.....

There is a clear legal process for entering this country from outside the EU, they should follow that process.

Iknow read this article about why Aylan died. And then come back and tell us all about the proper processes.

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/03/refugee-crisis-syrian-boy-washed-up-on-beach-turkey-trying-to-reach-canada

The parents of the children are responsible argument is easy to dismiss when you consider that they had no choice about the circumstances that drove them from their country. They then had very few options when arriving in other countries and some will have thought, having taken many risks in order to survive already, that if they try just one more thing, maybe things would be just about bearable till they can go home.

Risks that we all would take for our children.

Here on mumsnet where people debate for hours about fairly minor decisions on their childs well being, some people who are extremely protective of their "rights" etc etc will tell others who face death, misery and poverty to put up and shut up?

These people are dealing with hands given to them by luck, as are we, siome empathy would be nice. Sign the petition, come to the march, give money to charity. We can help others.