To keep shouting, they are refugees! !!

[ginmakesitallok]

And not migrants!!!!

The people who are dying on Europe's shores are not migrants! They are not coming to Europe for jobs, for benefits, because they think it will be an easy life. They are escaping war, ISIS, starvation, rape, death. They just want to live and give their children an opportunity to live.

Stop calling them migrants, as if they just fancy living somewhere else. Brits rearing abroad are migrants. Other eu residents coming here are migrants. The dead baby on a beach in Greece was a refugee.

I migrated from one European country to another.
I had money, education, resources, language skills, support and all was well.
And STILL it was hard, after 20+ years I still feel a sense of displacement and 'not-belonging' from time to time, yet don't really 'belong' to the country of my origin any more.

Nobody tell me migration is an easy option.

I find it very interesting that only in the last week or so, the UK news channel have reported migrant numbers in Germany and France which far exceed those taken in Britain where the red tops seem to be bleating the loudest about benefit-stealing forrin scum

And those calling the refugees 'illegal immigrants' are just plain unpleasant.

Technically correct but vile and inhumane.

I don't know how those escaping war in Syria or IS are anything other than refugees seeking refuge in a safe country. Perhaps with the idea of returning to rebuild their country when the war is over and stability returns. It is quite different to being an economic migrant, seeking a better life elsewhere.

Does it matter what they're called? They're still dying on beaches, whatever you call them. That should be the issue, not a word.

"Refugee" has a very particular legal meaning, though, and the vast majority of those leaving Syria in all probability won't qualify for refugee status. I think the most accurate description is "displaced persons" (ie people who are fleeing a war, rather than those who fear persecution), though it is a very dry term. In fact, I don't think that we have quite got the lexicon right for what we are currently experiencing

It does matter because they're treated differently re ability to stay in the country.

You can tie yourself up in knots over terminology. Refugees, yes many of them are. Do they have a valid claim to political asylum? Some undoubtedly will.
Migrant does imply a choice. I shouldn't think for one moment anyone ever wanted to choose to travel a thousand miles in search of something resembling a place of safety.
As someone else said these are ordinary human beings like us. They want the same things we want.
Refugees is probably the most accurate word to use. Every word feels wrong though for the desperation.

It matters, as TwoWrongssays, because it affects the ability of individuals to stay in the UK (or other parts of the EU), to work, to study, access the healthcare system, travel to other countries, ensure the rest of the immediate family can join them, access benefit / public funding... So although "migrant" might sound uncaring, deciding to call them all "refugees" doesn't change their situation at all

I have to say that migrant does have an implied sense of choice. There are no words to accurately describe the desperation that must have driven them. My friend has the unenviable job of going into the camps to process people (her job is to determine who can claim refugee status) and had only been moved from Turkey not that long ago. We have just finished talking online and she is dreading the possibility of being sent back because of the toll it has taken on her mentally and physically. As she said, migrant, refugee, whatever, these are human beings and we should be treating each othr with compassion and dignity.

Christine - refugee isn't a qualifying status though. Political Asylum is down to persecution. When the Balkans fell apart in the 90s very few of those people were eligible for asylum. In practice nobody was going to put Albanian Kosovans on a flight home so they were allowed to stay for a while. As were Afghans for a while. But they aren't given asylum.
Like I say, the terminology can be very precise in legal terms.

Interesting article about exactly this question. Refugees or migrants...

www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34061097

This sums it up succinctly

Migrants are people like my friend's son, who has moved to Spain because he considers that he can operate his business more profitably from there. They are not people who have fled their homes and jobs and moved abroad with virtually nothing because they are in desperate fear of their lives.

You know I do look at these crowds of young healthy men in Budapest and Calais and Lampeduesa and wonder what would have happened in 1939 if the young, healthy men of Europe fled to the U.S. leaving behind just women, children and the elderly.

Giddy - what do you mean by "qualifying status"? (Not a term I've come across)

There is no stamp that says this person is a refugee. I will admit my specialist knowledge is out of date but Political Asylum was what was granted. Nobody qualified for Refugee.

Itsall Mr McCourt makes an excellent point, but what has that got to do with the terminology debate?

I can't sleep for thinking about the image from the Independent.

It's unbearable and I have no idea how we can fix this awful mess.

I am fairly mortified that there is a problem. There are people, families, HUMANS dying and fleeing atrocities and ... so many people detatch, reported as a problem to be feared. Countries of birth to me are petty in this scenario. International funds exsist but governments are just calmly exacerbating the situation because of regulations about made up rules about made up borders.

I am an immigrant. Pacificdogwood I so agree with your posts. These people need empathy.

I am another person who can not sleep from the images that were published in the Independent.

I keep thinking about how I could help, what can I do, there must be something I can do.

I agree. Look at where these fellow human beings are fleeing from only to drown in the Eastern Med. Then ask yourself about the common denominator, which is the West either invading or instigating regime change. IMO, the corporations who lobbied for both should be paying for the misery they caused.

Yes, yes, yes to the OP - the use of the term 'migrant' is disingenuous at best when applied to Syrians fleeing for their lives. Maybe we should call the Jews fleeing Germany / elsewhere in the run up to and during the holocaust 'migrants'... And quoting a dictionary de I ition doesn't change that - context is all.

Mind you - what I did find some what encouraging, despite the repeated use of the word 'migrant', were the reDers' comments and compassion in yesterday's Daily Mail after the heartbreaking pictures of the drowned children - and how the compassionate comments were green arrowhead and the usual 'send them back' / the manger is full comments were read narrowed.

I can't imagine putting my children in an inadequate boat to travel across a sea unless I was, ya know, pretty desperate.

And as for having to claim in the first country you get to. What about language compatibility? Distant cousins who say they will put you up? There are many reasons to head for a country that is not Greece.

Migrant is an accurate catch-all word, but in the case of Syrians I think the blanket use of refugee is appropriate.

I get incredibly angry at this "first port of call" nonsense. Does anyone really think that Turkey can host the entire refugee population from Syria? Do the people up-thread spouting this nonsense have any idea how many refugees there are in Turkey already?

Illegal immigrant is NOT technically correct - it is not illegal to seek asylum!!