AIBU to think your start time is your actual start time?

[Katie2001]

Since starting work, many years ago, I've always believed if you start work at 9, you come in at quarter to or just before so you can be ready to start. If you are held up for any reason, or have to drop kids off or whatever of course it's different. Of the two colleagues at work on the same level as me, one starts at 9:30 so comes in at any time between that time and quarter to ten, makes her coffee, eats her breakfast and is ready to actually work about ten or quarter past. The other one starts at 9 but comes in any time between quarter past 9 and quarter to ten. Neither have school age children. Maybe I'm in the one in the wrong?

Whatamess it really depends on the office. In my office no one would care about the situation you mention as long as the employee was getting his work done and no colleagues were picking up the slack.

I really don't think offices where people get tetchy about you making a cup of tea at 9am are healthy or nice places to work. Personally.

There are some jobs where it would be absolutely fine for a person to work x hours per week less than everyone else provided their share of work was being done. Obviously doesn't work if you're customer facing, or a nurse or whatever. But otherwise, yes. Of course, a lot of employers fail to see it that way.

I despise faffers. Had a couple of jobs that I could totally have done in fewer hours, but I had colleagues who pissed around so much that even those of us who did our contracted hours, and hit targets during this time, were seen as working less hard than those who stayed late even if they didn't do as much work. I remember in one, they asked for people to come in and help with billing stuff at weekend. It was near the end of the financial year, and the assumption was we'd have loads of stuff we'd not sorted out that needed doing asap. That is, we were to come in to deal with our own personal backlogs. I didn't have one, so I didn't come in. I have better things to do at the weekend. Those who did come in by all accounts spent most of their time flirting and ordering lunch. Presenteeism at its worst. And I got in 15 minutes early every day too! No chance of leaving early to reflect that, of course.

My old boss who was a truly lovely man and extremely fair (everyone had a 10 minute paid break every morning and afternoon) told a repeat offender colleague (came in for 9 am start at 9.15, coffee, toilet and fanny about for half an hour), that he paid him from 9.00 am and if he was so desperate for a pee and a coffee 45 minutes after leaving the house every morning then he needed to get himself to a fucking doctor.

Apart from the fannying about, I would actually have quite a lot of issues with that. Giving everyone 10 minute paid breaks isn't "extremely fair", it's the norm, and it contributes to productivity. If you've had a couple of cups of tea for your breakfast, it's hardly unreasonable to need a wee an hour later - and, actually, it makes sense to go when you arrive at work rather than start working and interrupt what you're doing 30 minutes later. And why be an arsehole about an employee who wants a cup of coffee to start the day?

In a lot of Europe for office jobs you don't drink coffee at the desk, but in a staff canteen or staff room. You only have refreshments at set times - mid morning, lunchtime, mid-afternoon. You do not get your phone out at work except in emergencies. You do not surf the net in company time. But the flip side is that your job is expected to take 35-40 hours a week and if you are still there at 8pm people assume you are inefficient. Coming in at weekends is unheard of.

Boffin doesn't sound like a very nice working environment.

I manage to drink tea when I want to, occasionally browse the internet, use my phone when needed, and still do my job in my set hours. I never work evenings or weekends.

Where is this attitude coming from? Who would want to work somewhere you werent allowed to spend 5 minutes making a brew and having a chat? More importantly, who the hell is enough of a killjoy to begrudge that to anyone when it doesn't affect them in any way?

It's more formal and less blurring between domestic and professional environments. You get used to it and as I say everyone buggers off on time which is a bonus.

Who would want to work somewhere you werent allowed to spend 5 minutes making a brew and having a chat

Ha, try being a nurse! Can't even wee when you want to, if at all. Anyway....

Who would want to work somewhere you werent allowed to spend 5 minutes making a brew and having a chat?

Have you never worked retail, then? Or hospitality? Or nursing or teaching? Or any job that doesn't involve sitting in an office most of the day?

Not belittling office work at all, but in most other jobs, you can't wander off and make a cup of tea or have a chat. I work retail and unless I'm on a designated (unpaid) break I don't get to wander off and use the toilet or have a drink. I can't just bugger off and leave customers waiting so I can make a cup of tea sometimes I wish I could though

Exactly, most jobs are much more disciplined than the kind of office work that lets you pootle about when you feel like it having copious cups of tea and toilet breaks.

If you've honestly never done one of those jobs, you would not understand.

I get what you're saying here, perhaps I haven't worked in an office where people kind of come and go as they please. I If you've honestly never done one of those jobs, you would not understand. In my previous job I worked in an environment where its necessary to be professional at all times, its part of what we were paid for, and there was an expectation of coming into work and just getting on with it. We didn't have a set amount of work to do every day so you were never 'finished' IYKWIM. My old boss never had an issue with someone going for a wee but did have with the same person going through the same very lengthy routine every morning while the rest of us got on with the work. He was getting paid for doing fuck all.

Someone mentioned paid breaks being the norm. I can honestly say that in 32 years of working, it was the only job that I ever had 20 mins paid break over a day.

I was talking about office work! Sorry didn't make that clear.

I start early. During term time I wake up super early take my DD to school for breakfast club (which takes two buses) and then head off to work and I'm still a good twenty minutes earlier than I need to be. I'm current!y 35 weeks and for fairly obvious reasons it takes me a bit longer to do things like walk!! so I get in even earlier. We also have a log in system at my work so it shows what time you are in and out. If you are getting paid to do a certain amount of hours, that's how many hours you should do. Just my opinion x

Also, I don't begrudge people having a cuppa or something to eat as that's all I'm doing at the moment but I make sure that I do it during my break time.

I agree with flexible working hours and also agree with the comments made about 'faffers', but all these people saying it doesn't matter what time you arrive or leave provided you get the work done, do you not have phones you are expected to answer? If your office hours are 0900 - 1700 and I ring you at 0900 and you are busy getting a cup of tea, breakfast and having a chat then you are not getting all your work done are you? Either someone else is answering the phone on your behalf, or I'm on the other end getting annoyed that no-one is responding to me.

chip's comment shocked me because of the throwaway line of how she would stay late 'if required', how very big of her, essentially she is being paid for working one hour less per day and that is taking the mickey.

maybe perhaps the attitude is coming from you are at work to work and are paid to do so, you are not at work to fanny about on the internet or socialise unnecessarily.

I do my job and I do it well. I don't see the issue.

I was a nurse for 26 years. We were always expected to come in at 7.45pm for a night shift which began at 8pm. This was to receive report. We did a 12 hr shift and were supposedly meant to hand over at 8am but never, ever did. We could do as much as an hour's overtime per shift and it was just expected. I left nursing in 2006. I expect it's still the same.

Op, YANBU. But if they're allowed to get away with it, there's little you can do.

emotionsecho - typed long response and lost it. Basically, if you phoned my dept you'd be waiting a long time as we haven't a single phone on our desks! It's not that kind of work, and deliberately so - being interrupted by phone calls every 5 mins would make it impossible to work.

I can see how annoying this would be but by way of contrast, in my old job, people would previously clock in at the door then go and change into workwear have a fag etc. The management moved the clock-in machines to the shop floor, where you had to be in all your workwear to enter (food industry) , the locker room was up to 10 minutes walk from some work areas (huge site) and people had to get to work up to 15mins early to be 'on time' Hourly-paid staff so would be docked a quarter-hours pay if one minute late.
Now you have workers on nmw having to give the company up to half an hour a day for free to change in and out of the elaborate work wear and stomp over to their designated work area.
Didn't seem very fair to me and none of the office staff were on the clock.

Fair enough slightly, I appreciate that strict rules regarding time don't work in all areas and I think that there should be a lot more flexible work patterns in general (might help some of the rush hour chaos), but where the start time is mandated as 'x' for all employees then it does cause issues when people just waft in as and when they feel like it, it is a management issue though and is poor management not to address it and come up with a better system.

Totally agree it's a management issue. I think there wouldn't be half so many complaints about this kind of thing if more companies actually bothered to give their managers some real training!

What a depressing thread. Is this the next thing, we've done immigrants and poor people, now we turn on each other and police each other.

Very true slightly.

Linking Kitty, emotions and Margo together, none of this would happen if workers respected other workers (turning up to hand overs on time) and managers were more proactive in sorting out issues.

When I worked in factories on the machines (the machines didn't stop) some of the workers coming on shift would spend 15 minutes talking/drinking/smoking (when it was allowed) before getting to the machines to relive the workers that were going off shift. If you left the machine before you were relieved you would be told off. (and you didn't get paid for the extra 15 minutes).

On my second to last day I walked out on time, got pulled in to the office on walking in the next day (my last day) was bollocked for leaving and making a mess on the floor and costing the company money (the items coming off the machine had fallen off the end), I gave them an almighty slagging off, clocked out and fucked off home.

It felt great.

I have a colleague who dawdles every morning, often holding me up as she won't shut up and makes a ten second walk to my desk turn into a ten minute yap. Similarly, she spends the entire afternoon talking endlessly, so I then get caught in traffic. Even when I'm putting on my coat, switching off the computer and walking out, she doesn't take the fucking hint. I think it must be nice to have nothing to do and all day to do it in at work.