AIBU to think your start time is your actual start time?

[Katie2001]

Since starting work, many years ago, I've always believed if you start work at 9, you come in at quarter to or just before so you can be ready to start. If you are held up for any reason, or have to drop kids off or whatever of course it's different. Of the two colleagues at work on the same level as me, one starts at 9:30 so comes in at any time between that time and quarter to ten, makes her coffee, eats her breakfast and is ready to actually work about ten or quarter past. The other one starts at 9 but comes in any time between quarter past 9 and quarter to ten. Neither have school age children. Maybe I'm in the one in the wrong?

Depending on the job really, if required I work over to get whatever needs doing.

If I am "reminded" about my working hours, which I was in a previous job, I stuck to my contracted hours and yes, I clock watched.

I started work on time but finished on time even if I was half way through the job.

It is give & take but I don't take the michael

In the sort of work I do, the idea of a rigid 9 to 5 would be odd. We all tend to work whatever hours make us most effective.

I generally get in at 9ish or earlier if there is a reason, pretty much always take an hour away from my desk at lunchtime unless I am mega busy (gives me time to think and a change of scene) and leave somewhere between 5:30 and 6:15 unless there is a need to work later, when I do.

And I really don't care what hours other people I work with keep as it doesn't affect me.

YANBU OP, but what I hate is hypocrisy from those above. So we start at 8, I get in at between quarter to and 10 to 8, my boss gets in at 8.03 usually as she has kids. My new colleague was getting in at 8.03, boss pulled her up on it! Boss has also had the cheek to tell me I should be working from 10 to 8, not arriving then...

Boss works till 2, which apparently means she can leave between 1.15 and 1.45... She's got away with this for a while but it's started to be commented on at last! This would be fine if she didn't also complain she doesn't have enough time in the office to get anything done!

I guess it depends on a) the type of job and b) whether you make up the hours overall by staying afterafter normal finish time, taking less lunch or doing unpaid overtime during busy period.

Personally in terms of standard office jobs I really couldn't care less if people arrive 5-15m late even on a semi-regular basis, providing they do a good job and/or make the time up at other times.

I was standing in for my boss once and found on her computer a record of every office member and their precise arrival times every day during a period of a few weeks, like '9.01' '9.07' etc. Funny that there was no such record for the times people left the office.

I once worked with a management arse-licker who, when she was (inevitably) promoted to a head of department role, made a big deal of the fact that she told her department that they had to come in early and be ready to start work on the dot of 9. It was an open plan office, and everyone knew that, although she practised what she preached, the reality was that she wasted a lot of time every day on the phone to her mates: at one point I sat near her and I used to dread anything mildly exciting happening in her personal life because I knew I was going to hear about it many times over in ever-increasing detail.

So, again, although management loved her, the reality was the punctuality kick was totally counter-productive. Her clients complained because they were being overcharged for the minimal work she was doing, her subordinates had no respect for her, and in fact she was generally disliked throughout the firm. At one point the idiotic managing director proposed to promote her again, but fortunately she kicked him in the teeth by accepting a better-paid job elsewhere. She invited few people to her leaving do, probably because she realised it would be embarrassing when no-one turned up, and the rest of us had a great time toasting her departure elsewhere.

Well, I've never worked in an office so I imagine the dynamics are different and if the management don't mind so long as people put in the right hours then so long as it doesn't negatively impact other colleagues I guess it's not a problem.

I work as a nurse on a hospital ward, so my start time of 0730 (for a day shift) means I have to be sat down ready to receive handover at 0730, so the previous shift can handover and theoretically get home on time at 0800. Some colleagues arrive at 0715, have a little chat with the night staff, have a drink, then a leisurely wander into handover, and some fly in at 0728, grab a handover sheet and run straight to handover. All are sat down ready to begin at 0730.

When I used to work in an office, I was meant to start at 9am but usually trotted in about 9.15am and then I would definitely need to head to the canteen for coffee and toast. Realistically I didn't start working until 10am. My brain doesn't function before that time! I was happy to stay late when needed and did well there.

One woman used to work 7am until 10pm and come in on her days off. She was always so very, very busy. She had a specialised role and my mates and I felt really sorry for her initially and thought the bosses were treating her unfairly. Until a friend of ours did her role while she was on holiday and realised it could totally be done from 9am until 5pm - this girl was just a massive faffer.

Contrast this to my friend who worked 9am until 5pm and not a minute later, in the office or at home, probably half the hours of faffer. But she was so bloody good and super speedy she's now got the top job there.

The only person I have ever come across in a work capacity who is openly critical about others time keeping and work ethics actually spent most of her time at work doing the equivalent of piss arseing about with paperclips.

She was often very vocal about a woman who she had a half hour shift overlap with.vocal one did 4 hours a day the other woman did 12 but due to a huge commute would often be 5 mins late whilst she was at work she was covering 2 and a half people's work load and her job was different to vocal ones. VO was only in her company for a max of 30 mins a day and had no idea at all how much work the other one had to do or even what her job role was.
She was a nasty spiteful bully

chipshop I'm at your attitude and excuses.

Shift worker. I come in 30 mins early to settle in, actually go in 10 mins before so I can log on computer and be ready to start on time
If I am in on a later shift I do the same so I can relieve my colleague that is working and they can go on time (or 5/10 mins early)
Leave on time unless I'm stuck on a call in which case it's just leave when it's finished
I get annoyed by people that come in 2 mins before start of shift - that's not enough time to find a chair, desk, log on and start on time

I'm not a big fan of clock watching. If someone is doing their job and not impacting me, I don't really care what time they walk in the door. I my previous career, I once got hauled over the coals because I left at 4:30pm. It was something that was one of my conditions when they they wanted to hire me. There was no consideration of the fact that I only took a 30 minute lunch break each day to make up for it, and I was usually in the office between 7:00 and 7:30 each morning, when everyone else wandered in at 9:00. I had better results than the other staff, and a much bigger caseload, but all they could see was that I left 'early' every day.

I don't see what's wrong with chip shop's post. Presumably it was working for her and her employer.

Again, as long as it isn't impacting your work, I can't for the life of me see why anyone would make a habit of noting their colleagues' start and finish times.

I don't see a problem with it either. I am often not actually doing anything massively productive before about 9.30 by the time I've had breakfast, coffee etc, and that's with a formal start time of 8.30. This has no impact on my colleagues; we all do different roles. My workload is not falling to someone else, whenever I start. But work is changing anyway, at least office based work. I may not be in till nearly 9. But I will have checked my emails a couple of times before I leave the house and responded to anything pressing. It's more fluid now.....all this talk of clocking in machines sounds like the 1970s to me. Depends on role though, of course.

I think that when employees are treated like adults that they will generally work better. I know that any workplace I've been in that is willing to allow staff to manage their own times (within requirements) are probably more productive than ones who expect them to clock in and monitor them. I always seemed to work better in companies that knew if I left an hour early one day for something, that I'd had my work up to date and had more than made up the time elsewhere.

I'm a teacher now, so obviously aside from school hours and meetings, we come and go as we please. If we want to slip out and run some errands during our planning time, then we can. Some people get in early and go home once the students do. Others prefer to come in at the last minute, but stay late. Others may prefer to do as much of their work from home. We're professionals, and adults, and our principal treats us as such.

I think the bigger problem is people who can't recognise and adapt to the type of workplace they're in (and acknowledge that some in the same workplace have very different roles). I've worked in both kinds of role, and while people who can't get their head around the idea it does matter being 3 minutes late on shift are more visible, it's actually just as damaging to have clockwatchers clucking and tutting in a deliberately flexible environment.

Absolutely agree on treating adults like adults Midnite!

I think it absolutely does matter if you're in an office. My old boss who was a truly lovely man and extremely fair (everyone had a 10 minute paid break every morning and afternoon) told a repeat offender colleague (came in for 9 am start at 9.15, coffee, toilet and fanny about for half an hour), that he paid him from 9.00 am and if he was so desperate for a pee and a coffee 45 minutes after leaving the house every morning then he needed to get himself to a fucking doctor. This man left at 5pm on the the dot so therefore worked on average 45 minutes less than everyone else every single day. To the people who say it doesn't really matter in an office, do you think it wouldn't matter if everyone just did the same or do you genuinely think your time is more important than everyone else's?

slightly I also think you have to treat colleagues with respect.

We were once asked why we were ignoring a ringing phone (employees sat in staff room with
our brews at 8.40, so 20 mins before start start time) I answered that we didn't start until 9am....but apparently this was the wrong answer! It seems petty but the bosses would tske the mick and the staff were not appreciated which leads to this kind of mentality.

Whatamess - it depends on the office and the nature of the work you do, that was my point. In some jobs, it really really does not matter if someone regularly does 5 hours a week less, if they can get the work done. If you've honestly never done one of those jobs, you would not understand.

I have, and I have also worked in an environment where I had to teach trainees that logging in 1 minute late was late, and would affect our stats.

They really are not comparable environments.

I am leaving my job in two weeks because of one of these types. Can't be arsed picking up the slack for her anymore.

Whatamess - Obviously it will vary from office to office. But in my last office, the problem with the worker in your scenario wouldn't have been the starting late. They didn't care what time an employee started, within reason , as long as it wasn't a customer facing employee (e.g. receptionist). The problem would have been him not staying back 45 minutes to make up the time he missed at the start of the day.

Flexibility is fine with me, as long as it applies to everyone. If it is fine for one employee to wander in at 9.15 but stay at bit later, then it should equally be fine for others. It becomes a problem when one person does it, and managers say 'oh, you know what he is like' and roll their eyes but everyone else is expected to comply with rigid timekeeping rules.

On the other hand, I think productivity is more important. I once worked in an office where morale was absolutely rock bottom. I came in early in the morning but left at 5pm as I lived far away and didn't have a choice of trains. My colleague who lived nearby and had exactly the same job to do as me came in at 9am but frequently stayed late. I was taken aside and accused of being a clockwatcher, not being a team player etc because I left at 5. Apparently the unpaid hour I did every morning didn't count because 'no one is asking you to come in so early' yet if I had done the same hour after 5pm I would have been getting a pat on the back for staying late Also, it was easy to run a report on the computer showing exactly what we had done in our days work. I was able to prove that I was frequently getting through FIVE times as much work per day as my colleague, whilst leaving at 5, but no one cared about that, it was all about being seen to not watch the clock at 5pm .

If they had just allowed us some actual flexibility and measured us on productivity it would have made life easier for everyone. Well, everyone who was actually pulling their weight.

Oops, posted too soon. Treating colleagues with respect also includes not bitching about other colleagues, not clockwatching and trying to catch other colleagues out (that is their manager's role, and trust me, a well trained manager will never tell other staff if someone is on poor performance monitoring), understanding that other employees may be working to different agreements about start time etc, and so on.

Ridiculous example of the latter? Staff who did a strict 9-5 bitching and whining about people in a different role who left at 4.30pm. In order to coordinate travel time with other colleagues so that they could maintain 24 hour on-call coverage. Massively pissed off the on-call techs who resented being bitched about by people who never had to answer a pager at 3am or spend the weekend within 15 minutes of their PC.

slightly I agree!

My dh works in an IT role where he is frequently on call. He works 8am to 4pm in the actual office, but when he is on call he is sitting with the laptop open and logged on pretty much all day and all night and his phone can ring at 4 in the morning and he has to get up and deal with the problem.

The number of 'jokes' we get from family and friends about him only working part time because he is able to leave work at 4pm most days is unreal. I hate this mentality that unless you are glued to your desk at 8pm you don't work hard.