AIBU to think your start time is your actual start time?

[Katie2001]

Since starting work, many years ago, I've always believed if you start work at 9, you come in at quarter to or just before so you can be ready to start. If you are held up for any reason, or have to drop kids off or whatever of course it's different. Of the two colleagues at work on the same level as me, one starts at 9:30 so comes in at any time between that time and quarter to ten, makes her coffee, eats her breakfast and is ready to actually work about ten or quarter past. The other one starts at 9 but comes in any time between quarter past 9 and quarter to ten. Neither have school age children. Maybe I'm in the one in the wrong?

I am field based and work crazy long day's most of the week. Nobody really knows how long my days are, especially when I add in the catching up on emails after arriving at my hotel at 7pm after a 12hr day, for ~3 further hours. I rarely take lunch unless I am entertaining clients or coaching one of my team. You couldn't call that a lunch break.

It drives my FUCKING INSANE when I have to go to our head office and see the unbelievable laxness. I live 4.5 hours away from the office, but if I have an office day scheduled, I will be in at 8.30 latest to make a coffee, have a wee, find a desk, set up laptop etc. I have breakfast at the hotel I stay at the night before so will be up at 6.30, breakfasting at 7.30, out the door by 8am for the 20 min drive to the office.

Much of the office based staff breeze in at between 9 and 9.30, then do the coffee, breakfast, wee faffing and actually start work at about 10. They can often be found in the kitchen area catching up with colleagues on the footie, or last nights telly. many of them take a full 1hr lunch break, and then leave between 4.30 and 5pm. After 5pm the office is deserted.

It's a cultural thing, drives me mad. As a field based employee I cannot get any office support if I phone between 12-2 because everyone seems to be at lunch. Or before 9 am or after about 4.45 as the phones go on answerphone.

Rant over. I feel a bit better. Thank you.

Busy - do you get paid more than the office based staff perchance?
Fwiw I believe in good time keeping but I would not be up at 430 for work unless I had a flight to catch as the early start and long drive would make it counterproductive from a productivity stand point anyway.

^After several months of reminding staff that the day starts at 9 and finished at x and being ignored. Management took matters into their own hands.
amazing how traffic problems and tube delays decreased once deductions were being made.^

But were the staff any more productive? I once worked somewhere where management tried something similar. The result was that staff who were previously happy to stay late turned off their computers at 5 p.m. on the dot, even if they were in the middle of a piece of work, and productivity actually went down.

The same place also got arsey about people turning up late on days when there were public transport strikes, saying that was no excuse because you should just leave earlier. The fact that people might have other obligations to children and others passed them by. Management decreed that we had to phone HR when we were in so they could tick us off on a register. The first day they tried it they lost hours' worth of work whilst everyone complained about how offensive it was. The second day the diktat was ignored en masse, and I suspect HR just told them that everyone was in on time. That company had an appalling staff retention rate.

I don't think you should be let off for having children either. Fair enough, emergencies happen, but not every day! My boss in my first office job said that starting at 9 means you are at your desk and your computer is switched on and you are already working at 9. This was when it took about 10 minutes for a computer to start up.

Depends on the type of job, as others have said. If it's customer or service user facing, then punctuality is key. If it's an office based professional services company, and you don't have external commitments then it's generally more relaxed. My contracted start time is 8.30. I see the office before 8.40 very rarely. Same for most of my team. We are all generally there by 9. But clock watching to get out bang on 5.30 is unheard of, and we all do whatever hours are required to get the job done. If I have a proposal deadline, I may well be in till the office closes for nights in a row. Therefore no ones arsey about the 15 mins in the morning. I consider that a grown up work culture, with the previous caveat that obviously it only works for these sorts of environments and roles.

Definitely depends on the job. Obviously someone working in a call centre answering phones during a specific time period needs to work their proper hours.

However, outside of that I do not think it is productive to mandate strict start and end times. Enforcing a strict 9am start usually just results in staff who are equally keen to be out the door exactly at 5pm, rather than being willing to be more flexible about what needs to be done. In my office I start at 7.30 and leave around 4pm, but if I miss the bus or need to stay late then not an eyebrow is raised. Likewise other staff come in later and stay later, or take shorter lunches etc. It's more important and it's definately more productive to work to the workload, rather than the clock.

I suspect I am the person annoying some of you. I used to arrive 30 minutes late, have a shower, then make breakfast, so would be starting about 10. But I'd be in the office until 7 on a quiet day, often later at busy times. I just find I'm far more productive late afternoon than early morning. None of the managers I've ever worked for have had any problem with it - I think I'm lucky to have worked in an office where the work you produce is the only important thing.

These days I'm up at 5.30 and in the office at least an hour before everyone else, and leave early (childcare). I find this a bit more difficult to manage - I tend to be leaving just as the "we need to get this done by the end of the day, can you help" panic is setting in. But this was an official change to hours via a flexible working request, so its also fine with management, and people are starting to get used to it.

When I've been responsible for managing other people, I have been very happy to accommodate unofficial flexitime. I find people tend to work best when they work in the way that best suits them, as long as they are considerate of their colleagues.

Dh and I used to work together, contracted for 40 hrs but expected to be there for the time it took to get the job done. We were both hard workers and worked for 40 hrs every week but nearly always left on time and rarely did overtime. Others would be in for 60hrs but be lucky if they actually worked for 20hrs a week, guess who looked better?! We work for ourselves now!

I once worked in a place where people were so selective about what parts of the job they did that after having my scheduled days off which happened to fall on a Monday and a Tuesday that week, no one had actually done one particular part of the job for the entire time and left it for me. guess who got in trouble for it not being done despite me not even being there. god forbid someone else gave up the or chatting time and cigarette breaks fir n afternoon and actually got on with it.

nothing worse than people who think there time is more precious. parts of the job are below them and being there is enough.

I don't know...I'm a punctual person and get to work early (but then i teach so there's no way you can be even a minute late!) but if they're late every day and get away with it, why bust a gut getting in on time?

YANBU. I've had to have a quiet word with my junior. Work time is nine, he shows up at nine on the dot, spends half an hour in the toilet/making coffee/going around chatting to people and is ready to work by 9.30.

Finish time is five. At about twenty five to, he would start washing up his cups, tidying away etc ready to leave at five on the dot.

He never has to do overtime or take work home at his level - something myself and my colleagues have to do regularly.

We work on a time charged basis and need to charge seven and a quarter hours a day. I asked him how he was possibly managing that when he spent the best part of an hour faffing each day. Five hours a week for 48 weeks of the year comes to over a month of lost working time per annum.

I agree it depends on the role. I've found that people known for working a full day but come in early/work late are rarely grumbled about. What gets annoying are the people who salami slice 10 or so mins in the morning, an extra bit at lunch and then leave early. It really is more about not pulling your weight rather than time keeping. If lateness is causing a problem within the team then it should be dealt with by management.

Just to add, it wouldn't be an issue of he was making up the time - we're quite happy to be fairly flexible with later starts and later finishes.

It just always seems to be the ones in late are the first to leave at our office.

This is why I love flexitime.

Most of the offices I've worked in have used some sort of flexitime scheme. Typically there's core hours (say 9:30 - 16:00) where everyone is expected to be in unless they've got off-site meetings or it's been pre-agreed with line management. Clocking in points by the doors so in/out times are recorded if management need to check whether people are taking the piss.

Outside the core hours, employees can arrive and leave any time between the office opening hours. The only conditions are that you work your contracted hours and if you need to be there for meetings outside core hours, you attend them. It means that generally, no-ones bothered if you turn up at 9 instead of 8:30 because they understand that you're going to make the time up at the other end of the day.

Obviously this isn't a practical solution for all workplaces, if it's a customer facing role or one with shifts then punctuality would be required, but it works great for non-customer facing office jobs.

As long as I do my core hours it doesn't matter what time a get in the office, there's no way I'd get in 15 minutes earlier though. All I need to do is turn my laptop on, no faffing involved.

I often walk in anytime between 8:30-8:45am (start at 8:30am) as I have to drop DD at school but my manger or boss don't bat an eyelid as I do countless hours of overtime and I rarely leave the office at 5:00 on the dot and am often there until at least 5:30 with no lunch break, in at weekends etc. My colleague has made a couple of snide comments but I couldn't give a flying toss as work know I make up the time when required.

And when I do get in I don;t faff about with kettle, go for a piss etc, I don't have the bloody time to for a start.

There is a clocking in machine where I work and EVERY staff member including managers & directors clock in. If you are a minute late or clock out a minute early you lose 30 mins pay. Some people moan about it but at least it's same rule for all. If I have been a minute late before I stay 30 mins longer to make it up. I am usually 10-15 mins early anyway.

My boss in my first office job said that starting at 9 means you are at your desk and your computer is switched on and you are already working at 9. This was when it took about 10 minutes for a computer to start up.

Nah get stuffed. Computer booting up is on work time, not mine.

Nope, am I fuck staying 30 minutes late to make up being late by 1 minute at the start of the day. I bet there is a queue at the clocking out machine at the end of the day too.

Oh it's also bloody annoying too when your moved from one section to another to help out when everyone else on that section is paid more than you are and they are doing bugger all or pulling disappearing acts and your keeping it going whilst earning far less than the people your working with.

that drove me crazy too. especially as everyone could see productivity on the screen. my contribution as well as the other contribution.

Nope KidLorneRoll because everyone is used to it and it's a 24 hour business so all different shifts. I don't find it a problem as on the whole I enjoy my job and like all my colleagues. New starters are always a bit at first though.

Start at 9.00 means sitting at your desk working at 9.00.

Anyone can organised enough come in at 8.50 am and flick on their computer and while it is booting go and hang up coat and get a coffee. Its about organisation.

That said to many firms believe that employees should be prepared to work through lunch hour and 'be flexible' so they carry on working past 5.00 pm for no extra pay.

If start time means sat down working at 9. am then end time means computer/till gets switched off at 5.00 pm and you are going to get your coat ready to leave after that. It doesn't mean serving late customers, locking up, switching off lights, setting alarms, dropping letters in out rays, etc etc for 20 minutes.

If someone being late (or leaving early) causes someone else's workload to increase or causes issues for someone else then they are a dick.

I wonder how many of the people referred to on here who stroll in late to work and then faff about at the coffee machine chatting half the morning, then pile into the "teachers are lazy shysters and don't know what it's like working in "the real world" threads.

The thing is though, strict clock on/off times when they aren't required leads to a mentality of working to the clock, and with the best will in the world people are going to be late from time to time. Fair enough they make up the time, but a company saying you have to stay 30 minutes to make up starting at 9.01 is just exploiting it's staff.