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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not get the whole getting married thing

293 replies

Snoozebox · 27/08/2015 11:22

I know I am ignorant about the legal benefit side of things. I need advising!

Seriously, what are the advantages of getting married as opposed to just living with a partner?

I find the whole furore over the actual wedding ceremony just bizarre. I can't get my head around making a public celebration over a relationship which is mostly private. I don't get why we even need marriage in our modern society. I thought living together is commitment enough Confused

AIBU? Someone explain to me why marriage is special, please!

OP posts:
SouthAmericanCuisine · 30/08/2015 21:55

primal next week, I have to find two witnesses to confirm that I have not been coerced into signing my will; how is that different from needing two witnesses for a marriage contact?

SouthAmericanCuisine · 30/08/2015 21:56

*contract, not contact, obviously Blush

thehypocritesoaf · 30/08/2015 21:58

This is a discussion website and no, not all reasons are equally valid. If someone claims that the Nhs, employers and school gate mums prefer/respect married people more than non marrieds then we are entitled to hold their claims up to scrutiny.

PrimalLass · 30/08/2015 22:04

I don't know. But I do know that it feels intrusive and that I don't want to do it. Which is why I haven't - for 20 years.

PrimalLass · 30/08/2015 22:05

By the way, I think it's pretty ludicrous that you can get an extra passport that way. No choice if people need visas though, obviously.

SouthAmericanCuisine · 30/08/2015 22:08

hypocrite - is the reasons-for-marriage-validity-scale published alongside the MN talk guidelines? Grin

derenstar · 30/08/2015 22:12

But don't you have to get witnesses to countersign the black of photos for passport applications anymore? Last time we got a new passport for dd2 we did. That to me seems like needing a 'witness'.

SouthAmericanCuisine · 30/08/2015 22:14

primal having done the "turn up and do the bare minimum" at a registry office, it was as far removed from a "public declaration of our relationship" as I can imagine, really.

We had explained to the registrar in advance, and she conducted the process like a legal transaction - imagine taking an oath in court, and that's what it was like, really. It certainly didn't feel like an intrusion into our relationship in any way.

I suppose it depends on the registrar and the witnesses as to how it feels; but for us, we didn't feel as if our privacy was being invaded in any way.

thehypocritesoaf · 30/08/2015 22:15

I have it on my spreadsheet Smile

PrimalLass · 30/08/2015 22:30

I guess the problem is that I wouldn't want witnesses I know but wouldn't want to offend our mothers. So we are stuck in a never getting married void.

Having someone sign a photo is totally different.

livingzuid · 31/08/2015 08:11

Just on an earlier comment to do with women being challenged about whether their children are theirs or not, it can and does happen frequently. I was stopped at Dunkerque heading to the UK with my then thirteen week old baby and had to wait until my husband drove up in the van behind to show we were all travelling together. I kept my maiden name when we married.

The actual words were 'we need to know your husband has given permission for you to travel with the child.' Needless to say, I made a complaint.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2014/may/12/passport-control-border-children-parents-different-surnames

Furthermore, in the Netherlands if you are travelling outside of a non-Schengen zone you need to now carry all passports, a copy of the father's passport, your marriage certificate plus birth certificate. This is a new rule. Yet this also seems to apply in the Schengen area too regardless of the law. Several friends have missed flights as a result. When you have bawling young kids and toddlers in tow, it is not fun at all.
Also we got married, for free, just the two of us and two witnesses at the town hall where I live in NL. It took five minutes. The reason to be there in person has already been mentioned - to ensure that both parties are consenting.

I did, however, get my divorce for my first marriage purely online :D

thehypocritesoaf · 31/08/2015 08:16

I don't doubt women travelling alone with dc have been challenged. I'm just curious about how being married would stop that happening?

GnomeDePlume · 31/08/2015 08:29

I find the traditions of marriage (at least in England) quite fascinating as they do show how much the ceremony is about ensuring that the marriage is a marriage and that the people getting married are marrying who they think they are marrying:

  • the putting back of the veil for the reciting of the vows (so no ringers)
  • the taking and breaking of hands (so that an unwilling participant could escape)
  • the door to the room where the ceremony is held having to be open (it is a public declaration if anyone else cares to observe)
  • the standard wording of the vows (only the correct vows make the marriage legal)

Marriage is a serious and solemn matter. All of the rules around it are there to make sure that the marrying couple know this and so that there can be no doubt afterwards that a marriage took place.

It is different from a passport application in that it is tying two people together legally. A passport application is just proving who you are.

If you dont want to follow those rules then that is fine. You dont have to. However that means that you cant get married.

BertrandRussell · 31/08/2015 08:33

I think people are assuming that if you're married the family have the same name. it would be normal to expect immigration control to briefly query why someone would be travelling with a child with a different name. But why would the parents being married make any difference?

BabyGanoush · 31/08/2015 08:50

I have travelled alone with kids and was challenged in countries in South America , but never in Europe. "challenged" meaning prohibited to leave the country without my marriage cert and a legal document from DH saying I have his permission Shock.

SouthAmericanCuisine · 31/08/2015 08:52

plume. The traditions you describe are not part of marriage, though - they form part of a traditional wedding ceremony.

A legal, civil marriage does not require a veil, an open door, holding hands. There is, however, a required spoken oath - just like in a court of law.

BertrandRussell · 31/08/2015 08:56

Babyganoush- what would have happened if you hadn't been married?

Ifiwasabadger · 31/08/2015 08:59

your two witnesses - one can be the person marrying you, ours was. the other was the photographer who took some pics as we left.

OP, go to vegas, do it just the two of you, tell no one, no muss no fuss. enjoy a holiday there after you've had a simple ceremony. i heartily recommend this!

MamaLazarou · 31/08/2015 09:00

My passport is still in my maiden name and I have flown alone with DS (who has his father's name) with no questions asked.

BabyGanoush · 31/08/2015 09:01

I would not have been able to leave the country unless I had brought along a lawyer to bribe the right official Shock

In Britain and most of Europe being married or not is not a big deal, but in other countries it really is. (Lived in Mexico, Chile, Argentina and Uruguay)

Bunbaker · 31/08/2015 09:12

"But don't you have to get witnesses to countersign the back of photos for passport applications anymore?"

Only for new adult and children's passports, replacement passports if lost or stolen or if your appearance has changed significantly. Adult and children over 14 renewals don't need photos signing.

BertrandRussell · 31/08/2015 09:13

Are you seriously saying that it is impossible to travel in and out of Mexico with children if you are not married?

moopymoodle · 31/08/2015 09:30

I never once said i got married because of prejudice at the school gates? It does happen but not often and ive only seen it once. I got married for love, the rest is a bonus.

I would have thought if your married immigration would not question mothers as names are the same? Its stupid anyway as they should have it on the system that your the childs mother and link passports regardless of surname.

SouthAmericanCuisine · 31/08/2015 09:34

russell until relatively recently, there were legal restrictions on unmarried women travelling within, and outside, Mexico.
It is still restricted by social convention for Mexican nationals - and the UK government issues comprehensive advice for British women travelling alone, and with children of a different name - including which documents will be required.

BertrandRussell · 31/08/2015 09:48

"Although there is currently no specific requirement for authorisation by an absent parent, single parents who are not, or who appear not to be, the child’s parent (eg if they have a different family name) may be asked to show evidence of their relationship with the child and the reason why they are travelling with the child. This evidence could include a birth or adoption certificate, divorce or marriage certificates, or a Parental Responsibility Order."

FO advice for travelling in Mexico. Marriage does not appear to be a requirement.