Women only train carriages? really????

[TheoriginalLEM]

So, i quite liked Jeremy Corbyn as a runner for opposition leadership. Down to earth, gritty etc...

Then he has the idea of women only train carriages to avoid sexual harrassment? What next? Women not allowed in pubs in case we have our sensitivities hurt hearing the odd F word?

Its a brilliant idea, why waste all our energies on trying to change attitudes, just keep the poor loves in their own safe little carriages. Will they be painted pink with little make up mirrors on the back of the seats?

Don't stop there - we can abolish sexual harrasment in the workplace by having women only offices. Of course certain jobs have a predominantly male workforce so women are going to have to step down from those career choices and stick to something more feminine instead....

Foot. Shot. Self. himself!

Well a late night women only carriage might be a good idea.

Of course all these extra staff on transport would have to be men then, if working at 'dangerous' times, or the staff might be assaulted!!

I don't know how the female-only aspect of this would be enforced, anyway. I'm currently on another thread which is arguing whether women who left a women's toilet in a department store because a transwoman was sporting an erection were being silly fuss-about-nothings, or reasonably concerned not to want to be around a stranger's erection. I'd have thought that was pretty clear-cut myself, but apparently not.

(I'm pretty depressed about the future of any sex-segregated facilities, tbh, though I wish I wasn't.)

And on the wider point about train safety, both for the passengers and the staff - that's one reason why, although tube strikes are a total pain in the arse, I totally supported the unions who were trying to stop ticket offices from being closed. A lot of closures have already happened, and it's very scary.

MrsGB, what's patronising about saying that he wants to consult with women? I find it really refreshing. Usually we get told what's good for us by politicians, precious little listening goes on.

Sexual harassment is something that affects society as a whole. Victims of it have to carry it for the rest of their lives. Men get treated like the enemy, all get treated like potential attackers. So, yes, I do think it's patronising of him to 'consult women' on the matter, as if only we have some magic answers, as if only we suffer. It makes it sound like he's throwing our gender a bone, as it were, instead of coming up with genuine solutions, with viable ways of funding them - no alcohol, more conductor visibility, training, education on sexual harassment. The idea of separation is instantly defeatist and certainly gives the idea that women must sit elsewhere or deal with the consequences.

Okay I don't think womens only carriages are the way forward. But it is also pretty clear that JC is agnostic at best about it.

Not surprised it is being shouted around as his stupid idea...people are really really running scared of him!

I am old and I remember female only carriages. when they were full you had to sit elsewhere on the train and there was a presumption that as you had chosen not to sit in female only that you must want some male attention. most times, just chat but sometimes very unpleasant and I have ended up getting off a few stops early to avoid. and what if there is an 8 carriage train with 1 as first class and 1 as female only and these 2 carriages are virtually empty and the other 6 are rammed?

Was that in the UK, mummymeister? (That's really interesting, if depressing, so thanks for posting it.)

YABU as he's only said he's willing to discuss it if there is demand for such a thing. He doesn't sound in favour at all, tbh, but willing to listen if women say that is what women would like.

Women only carriages were introduced in Britain after a woman was murdered by a man in a train carriage. At the time there were no corridors between carriages, so no way the woman could escape.

Queeltie those IIRC were the small carriages, with only an exit slam-door, and no access to the rest of the train. Once someone was in one, there was no exit untill a station. A woman alone in one at night was vulnerable to a bloke getting in and having free rein...

yes archeryannie it was in the uk when I was travelling to school and later on so around the 1970's. they were slam door type trains. (think Hogwarts express to look at!)

It all very much depends on whether women-only carriages would actually work to prevent harassment. If there was no guard, then forget it - I think they would simply attract attention from pissed-up, stupid men. And no point talking about banning alcohol, they're already pissed before they get on.

If there was a guard, then they might succeed in preventing low-level, 'casual' harassment. But a single guard isn't going to be able to prevent a determined bunch of guys intent on invading the women-only carriage, to 'have a laugh' - or worse.

The best protection for women on trains is men - usually older men who are not prepared to stand by and watch when trouble breaks out. Which means women sitting in the WO carriage have a) identified themselves as 'worried' or 'suspicious of men', which will act like a red rag to the sort of idiot men we're talking about. And b) are removed from their best source of potential help. They'll have ONE guard, and I bet you anything you like that guard will be restricted by a whole bunch of health & safety rules as to when they are allowed to get involved and when they should just sound an alert and wait for backup to arrive.

Train guards and bus conductors used to be a normal part of society. They were ubiquitous, valued by the community, representing a level of authority and concern for public safety. They've been eroded by private companies wanting to maximise profits. If Jeremy Corbyn wants to bring them back as part of restoring a transport system owned by the public and run for the public's benefit, I wholeheartedly support him. We will all be safer as a result.

Yes I know ptumbi, I have travelled in them.

Train station in my city has a Ladies waiting room....im amazed it's still there!

*I think this is quite a stretch actually. He's not saying Muslim women feel unsafe or that Muslim women have been assaulted. He's saying "women."

I think you're reading too much into this.*

I don't think it's about risk of attack. I think it's about conservative Muslims who favour segregation of the sexes in normal day to day business regardless of the risk of attack, just as a matter of course. He's dressing it up as 'women's safety' but I have no doubt he is completely aware that this is a group this will play extremely well with and that it was his full intention that this would meet the demands of that section of the community. Because in all honesty I've never heard of a particular demand for sex segregation from any other part of the community in the UK. And come on, at the end of the day we all know Jezza loves a good extremist. Just thrown in some anti-semitism and homophobia alongside the misogyny and he'll throw a reception for you in the Houses of Parliament!

But it is also pretty clear that JC is agnostic at best about it.
Yes, that's my impression, too.
As far as I can see it's one suggestion amongst many - not a set in stone edict from on high. Presumably, if lots of people argue against, it will be discarded as are many ideas that don't get much support.
Equally, there are lots of women who haven't been against it.

But it's almost like people have seized on this just to have a go at Corbyn. Imagine that.

Well I clearly need a carriage for over 25's because the abuse I've had is from groups of teenage girls.

If I wasn't as assertive I would have found it very distressing.

I've come across exactly this before Lazy - www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/women-only-train-carriages-could-cut-7854436
Again no mention of Muslims though

I too remember women only carriages, in the uk. One of the myriad reasons tthey stopped them was because it was felt they could be targetted.

What a truly ridiculous suggestion. When has segregation ever proved to be a healthy solution.

Let's work on the root cause. The pervading misogyny in society.

Nobody would disagree that we need to work on the root cause. But what about in the meantime? Sexual harassment of women on trains has been going on since trains were first invented.

If we are going to commit that sort of funding then it would be better spent on generally making transport safer. Women only carriages will do little to stop serious assaults (it may even attract them) and nothing to protect women (or men) who sit elsewhere.

I think it's a brilliant idea. It would needed to guarded though. And I wouldn't want any older male children in there with their mums either

Years ago, there used to be 'Ladies only' carriages on the Euston to Watford (slow) line. They were abandoned because of men getting in when there were lone women in there and carrying out attacks. They were non corridor trains though, so the woman would be trapped in the carriage until the next station.

The Ladies Waiting Room in the old Leeds Bus Station was a poem in bleakness. I never saw anybody use it. Even the pigeons kept away.