Women only train carriages? really????

[TheoriginalLEM]

So, i quite liked Jeremy Corbyn as a runner for opposition leadership. Down to earth, gritty etc...

Then he has the idea of women only train carriages to avoid sexual harrassment? What next? Women not allowed in pubs in case we have our sensitivities hurt hearing the odd F word?

Its a brilliant idea, why waste all our energies on trying to change attitudes, just keep the poor loves in their own safe little carriages. Will they be painted pink with little make up mirrors on the back of the seats?

Don't stop there - we can abolish sexual harrasment in the workplace by having women only offices. Of course certain jobs have a predominantly male workforce so women are going to have to step down from those career choices and stick to something more feminine instead....

Foot. Shot. Self. himself!

Maybe- I was referring to physical assaults not sexual assaults. Yes men do physically assault women on trains but I would have thought that was a much rarer incidence than the sexual assaults we are talking about. Dh when he was hit felt he was unable to do anything because men in his eyes do not hit women

Just again to point out that if you live in the suburbs even the night trains are packed with people coming back from the theatre nights out etc. just because it is past 8 pm doesn't mean that suddenly we can get rid of 25% of available carriages for a certain group of people.

You can stop "acting" like a victim. However, this is no guarantee that you won't become a victim anyway. I'm quite capable of giving as good as I get, a career teaching in FE has given me both the look and voice that produces a Pavlovian reaction in most adults. This does not stop those men who don't like being shown up in public, nor does it stop those men where there is no one else around to shame them to.

There is nothing quite so dangerous to a woman as a bruised male ego.

So what is the answer, Run away and hide,

I find acting like a mental headcase bitch that is more unstable and irrational does the trick.

Where are these trains where you are on your own in a carriage? The ones myself and other members of my family get are packed to the rafters. You are lucky if you get a seat and or you don't get thrown off by someone who wants to take your 10sq inches of standing space. Dd and her friend who she travels with had an incidence where a guy started hitting on them, they were about 13, Her friend did as her mother told her and didn't answer back my dd came out with a load of expletives and told him to off which he did at the next stop.

Oliversmumsarmy I saw something like this where two young girls prob early mid teen, early prob fri/sat evening were sitting down at a table on the train and group of 4-6 guys specifically sat down opposite them, behind them (learing over the top) and to the side of them, and were trying to hit on them.

But hey you know they could stop acting the victim....(rolls eyes)

We have a woman only waiting room at our tube station (plus a mixed one). I rather like it. I've turfed men out of it before now.

Breaking So what did they do?

Slug it really is that simple to stop acting like a victim and shout and scream and Eff and Blind back so the aggressor is the one who is embarrassed and they are the ones to get off the train
Oh leave it out!
Most people unless they have some sort of training aren't able to control or predict how they will react when threatened.

Calll me a wuss but I am very reluctant to challenge or publicly humiliate a person who is twice my size, and more than twice my strength who has already demonstrated a desire to do me harm.

If I had my 20 stone power lifter boyfriend by my side I might give my attacker what for, but I somehow suspect no one would bother me in the first place if I had my pet gorilla with me. ?

I am 5ft 4" and so most people are taller than me. I have had no training on how to tell people to go away. I just assumed it was being assertive. Maybe I just don't stand for any crap and knowing I don't stand for any crap means my dc don't stand for crap either.

This has got me thinking of an incident I had in the centre of Birmingham many years ago. The thought that if I hadn't given a guy a mouthful of abuse and fought back whether I would be here now or how my life would have changed.

Anyone seen the film The Lovely Bones and how it ended?

Oh I do like a bit of victim blaming in the morning...."..

Oliversmummy No one can know in advance how they will react, no one can say what the outcome come would have been had they reacted differently

bully for you if you if you feel able to stand up for yourself in a situation where others might freeze?.
But to suggest that those who freeze or feel it would be better to not challenge the aggressor are acting like victims...

Well that's just classic victim blaming, isn't it ?

better to not challenge the aggressor are acting like victims

They are victims if there is an aggressor. What I am suggesting is taking the power back from the agressor by using your voice and bringing to the attention of the whole carriage what the perv is doing. Let him be the one that is embarrassed. Let him be the one who gets off at the next stop.

It might work it might not
It may make him get off at the next stop, he may think about his actions, feel embarrassed and treat women with more respect in future.

He may be incandescent with rage at being humiliated by a mere woman, a subordinate, he may follow you and attack you later.

He may take his rage out on someone else in a situation where she can't make him look stupid in front of other people.
Any thing could happen.
?

Haha. Brilliant reply in the times letters today along the lines of

" the answer is clear, we should have men only carriages which an be booked by men who can trust themselves to behave appropriately around women "

Excellent!

It's a pretty practical idea actually, if only it wasn't so non-PC. When my 18 year old DD and her friends travel back late from London, one hour at least, on a multi-stopping train, I always tell them, as it gets emptier, to move up the train until they find a carriage with a woman in it. Sometimes you have to deal with the world as it is - doesn't mean you stop trying to change it.

I understand why the issue is being aired, I welcome the open discussion.
My view is that I think some women may like it but that those who chose not to use them would feel more vulnerable and are more likely to be targeted.

Will the women only carriages have curtains and cushions?

If I were a man I'd be quite upset of the thought that women have to be segregated in order to be safe.

There has to be a better solution, BUT if women who use trains a lot want these carriages then....... Sobeit.

Helenluvsrob.
Yes. Men only carriages, that would be better :)

When I first started work (1980s) there was a waiting room at the station I used in the evenings with a sign saying "Ladies Waiting Room". I assume this was an old sign and there was no actual rule that men couldn't use it, but generally speaking they didn't.

Occasionally, a man would walk in and that did feel very threatening, much more so than if the room had already and usually included men IYSWIM.

I think it's a great idea as it can be quite scary sometimes.
I would love to get the late train home and take dd to evening concerts but hate the harassment and have to miss out.
It is the language and the way some men act, even though women can be just as brash they do tend to stop or pipe down if they see you have dc.

Yes. I suggested upthread that the logical solution is to segregate the men into a carriage and give women tbe freedom of public space. Let's stop victim punishing. It's varieties of masculine behaviour which cause the problem. Restrict their liberties, not ours.

What about boys who are simply victim of violence by a group of thugs?

What about young boys who have been sexually assaulted and are even more ashamed than girls?

Why do you think that women are always the only victims?

I am 100% against women only anything (apart from public toilets, disgusting as they are), it's ridiculous in a modern society (women only swimming pool, really?), but it drives me mad when we completely ignore a problem. Boys get raped too you know. It might happen less, you might hear less about it, but it happens. Why do we forget about them?

I think that the general concept of a female only train carriage gives the idea that women are the problem, not the men who harass them. It is another way of victim-blaming, and of course that's never okay.

That being said, I would probably use a female only carriage, as I do tend to get anxious about men when travelling alone, especially late at night. I've witnessed drunken fights and verbal assaults on trains, all by men, and if I had the option to sit in a carriage with girls, I'd jump at the chance.

Where I live there used to be a female only taxi service, where all the drivers were ladies, and everyone I've spoken to that used it said they felt so much at ease, as unfortunately it's just become "one of those things" that we have to suspect taxi drivers of being potential predators.

I'm not saying women can't be predators or commit sexual assault, but it's a hell of a lot less likely. I'd rather be surrounded by women than men.

I too have been (mildly) sexually assaulted on a train. It was the middle of the day, empty carriage, and a large man in a long coat (despite hot sunny weather) got on and sat down beside me, despite there being heaps of other free seats. I sat there on high alert wondering whether it would be rude to move - due to his size he was pressing against me. Then he put his hand on my knee. I elbowed him in the ribs as hard as I could, leaped up and sat down a few seats away where I could see him. He looked a bit mortified and got off the train at the next stop. Not a word was spoken. I don't think women-only carriages are the answer - I think men should be educated at school from a young age that you do not touch a woman without permission, at all.

I think anyone that votes for him is off theyre heads! the tories want him in so labour have no chance at the next election!

Emily Pankhurst will be spinning in her grave.

If some women go and sit in the women-only carriage, there'd be a higher proportion of men in the other carriages. I'd like to continue to sit in a mixed carriage, and would prefer that women don't lower the percentage of themselves in there.