Women only train carriages? really????

[TheoriginalLEM]

So, i quite liked Jeremy Corbyn as a runner for opposition leadership. Down to earth, gritty etc...

Then he has the idea of women only train carriages to avoid sexual harrassment? What next? Women not allowed in pubs in case we have our sensitivities hurt hearing the odd F word?

Its a brilliant idea, why waste all our energies on trying to change attitudes, just keep the poor loves in their own safe little carriages. Will they be painted pink with little make up mirrors on the back of the seats?

Don't stop there - we can abolish sexual harrasment in the workplace by having women only offices. Of course certain jobs have a predominantly male workforce so women are going to have to step down from those career choices and stick to something more feminine instead....

Foot. Shot. Self. himself!

Tbh I'd assume that anyone who thought like this was the sort of person that regularly blames women for being assualted anyway.

I completely agree with you barbarian but some of these people are in the legal system and I don't want to give them any more fuel. I think women-only carriages would be counter productive to women, for this reason, amongst others.

Hmm - feels like going back in time but if it's been raised with him worth discussing.
I think the bit about certain times is enlightening - travelling home on trains late at night I've felt v vulnerable and been verbally abused so would use it if on offer late at night.

Of course I don't think sexual assult is 'over reported'. The point I'm making is that suggestions such as 'women only train carriages', deals only with the symptom, not the actual problem. In my opinion, it's just a patronising suggestion from a politician who will just say anything to be different. I don't believe he will actually implement any such thing, as over and over again he has not provided any back up to his big plans - especially in how he plans to sustain them economically.

And yes, I have had to travel on night transport in a big city. Often by myself on a Saturday night. It was not then I was inappropriately rubbed up against though - that happened on a rural bus in the middle of the day. I'm not going to start calling for women only buses because of it.

Men are more likely to be attacked full stop, perhaps we should make personal carriages since people evidently can't be expected to keep their hands to themselves so much so we must introduce divided carriages

Or not, because that would be a ridiculous idea. As is this one. If segregating women is the only way we can stay safe then we are not a civilised society.

I was groped on a bus when I was 14. The guy stopped when I eventually shouted out for him to stop, which wasn't easy for me as I was painfully shy.

That was a packed bus - so we need women only buses? Lots of women get harassed on the street - women only streets? It gets more ridiculous an idea the more I think about it.

I started off thinking, hmm could be a good idea, but the more I think about it, the less I like it.

I think the idea that women should continue to be harrassed and (quite often) assaulted on public transport until we succeed in convincing mysogynist and predatory men to change their ways is shit, quite frankly. How about improving safety whilst challenging the attitudes that lead to them being necessary.

The problem is, though, that women-only carriages would perpetuate the attitudes that arguably make them necessary...

And YY r.e. the concerns that women who chose not to travel in these carriages might then be blamed should they be assaulted.

That said, it seems that what Corbyn said wasn't quite the same as "women only carriages will happen if I get into power". Rather, he said he'd heard women expressing a desire for them and would be proactively seeking wider views. Even though the idea itself is problematic I think there's something to be said for his approach of listening to women rather than presuming that he as a male politician has all the knowledge and experience necessary to decide for himself. Does that make any sense?

I am not a fan of Corbyn and wouldn't vote for him if I was a member of the Labour party. However, the reporting has been ridiculous. He didn't suggest the idea nor has he said he is in favour.

Perhaps the headlines should have been
"Middle aged grey haired male politician decides to ask women what they want instead of telling them what's good for them!."

Corbyn, what a bastard - suggesting consulting women about how they want public transport made safer!

Late night in a big city is a very different proposition to late night on a long distance train. In a big city you won't be on the train for very long anyway, you can get off and get the next one (there will be a next one) or an alternative mode of transport. a >3 hour late night train journey when there is no alternative is something else.

I don't agree that it would perpetuate it unless total or even majority segregation were being proposed. I don't think the option of late night women's carriages on some services equates to this, esp as so many women would choose not to use them.

I would really like a women only train carriage, sorry. I've been sexually harassed and abused on public transport so much that I would really welcome the idea.

Well until the day dawns when all men decide sexually abusing or assaulting women is wrong and they won't do it any more, I would be quite happy to have the choice of travelling without being stuck in a carriage with a potential abuser. ( Just so I could relax instead of planning possible escape options and weighing up if I could fight the guy opposite if needed
)
Of course, for those of you who are happy to wait until society improves and the risks are gone,( Good luck with that!) you should be able to choose a mixed carriage to travel in.

gottaget completely agree, as pessimistic as it sounds!

What he should be campaigning for is manned stations (and preferably an old fashioned train guard)

I often catch the tube to the end of the line. Occasionally, it is only me and one other person getting off and I then have to walk through the empty station to a dark and poorly lit car park - it can be quite intimidating.

The two teen girls I remember when I was younger sat on a table who then 4-6 older guys all sat opposite on the table and behind them learing over and engaging them in what seemed forced conversation early evening might have disagreed with you OP.

What I think is quite interesting is that many Labour critics of Corbyn espouse the idea of incrementalism - they feel that his 'stick to our principles' approach is not going to work while their 'slightly better than the tories, not much but hey things will be slightly better and anyway anything's better than the tories, right?' approach is the one to follow. On this topic, the roles seem to be reversed - Corbyn has agreed to consult on a pragmatic far from perfect proposal that might make things a bit better right now for some people, but is far from being the long term solution to the underlying problem, and is being criticised by people who want utopia or nothing.

The rail companies should be providing some sort of security official on every train, it's not like they're not making enough cash out of the poor saps that have to use them.

That'd help keep everyone safe...

I'm totally against women only carriages. Societies that turn to segregation do not move forward to protect women, it is a signal that society accepts assault as inevitable (natural even).

But I think it's totally wrong to blame Corbyn as though he is pushing to move down that route. He has not said he thinks it's a good idea. He has said that women have raised this women and he is open to listening to them, but that his intention is to make public transport safe for everyone. Accepting that their may be a different perspective for women and wanting to listen to women's views on the idea (which will not all be the same as this thread shows) is not the same thing as endorsing it as a solution.

I won't vote for the man though.

We used to have a 'women's bus' late at night, that ran from our uni campus and would drop you at your own door. It had been running for a couple of decades, with no problems, until a group of students decided it was sexist somehow and had it removed.

I was personally sexually assaulted whilst walking home from a bus stop - entirely due to this happening. Prior to this, I would have got on the women's bus home. I know several other women who were either assaults or harrassed after it was stopped. We campaigned for its return with no joy (this was in 1996/7). What a fucking disgrace.

I would be very very glad of women's carriages. I am not a 'man hater' but I would like to able to make the choice not to be in their presence if I feel my safety could be threatened. What on earth is wrong with actually consulting with passengers to see what THEY actually want, rather than looking at how society SHOULD be and instead looking at how it actually IS for passengers, and what can be done to help them?

Another example of the media reading a statement and writing a headline that will whip people up into a froth about something entirely different... Now, why would anyone do that I wonder...???

IKnowIAm they should be. But they don't. They are supposed to provide working toilets too and they often don't do that either. So, for now, for a short term fix, this is a possibility (to the harrassment issue not to the toilet one). Do you really want to keep the status quo until perfection can be achieved? Because it will be a long wait and I haven't got that long.

The idea is so ridiculous it is beyond words. I heard a woman on the radio this morning who was from India and she said that she actively avoids and tells her daughters to avoid the women only carriages. They are often targeted by troublemakers and beggars. If something kicks off on a train it is always men who come to help you. No chance in a women only carriage. She said she has always felt safe on London transport and we shouldn't go down the Indian route.

Bottom line is that everyone should be safe on the train. Most attacks that occur are fueled by alcohol and men are at just as much at risk of getting into a carriage with a nutter as a woman.

Yes I have had a man stand uncomfortably close on the train. I swung my bag between me and his crotch and accidentally stood on his toes with my lead stilleto heel. It wasn't that difficult and I haven't been traumatised for life.

Not sure of weather I will link this story properly but I think this argument needs a bit of context. It isn't always men posing a threat to safe travel. We should all be able to travel in safety and comfort.

www.echo-news.co.uk/news/10579945.Teenage_girl_gang_attack_six_c2c_passengers_in_terrifying_attack/

I think it would perpetuate attitudes. Women-only carriages essentially send out the message that women are safer away from men. It puts the onus on women to carry out actions to be safe rather than on men to change their behaviour. PPs have suggested the possibility of victim-blaming and this obviously happens in rape cases in which women's clothing forms part of the defense. There is already this idea in certain areas of society (including at a legal level!) that men just can't help themselves, and thus women have the responsibility not to 'ask for it'. I think women-only carriages would send the implicit message that there just isn't anything to be done to change men's behaviour, hence this step becoming a necessity.

Gottagetmovin things aren't going to move forward if you segregate. It'll just descend into 'woman who dares sit with men is asking for it or should accept the risks'.

It's funny really, women are willing to accept this because it's for 'safety' but the exact same implemented for say, religious reasons would be met with uproar despite the result being the same.

Also reminds me of when people say women wear the burka to remove temptation from men. Women sitting in women only carriages to remove temptation is next then?

What more regression shall we have... back to female and male exits and entrances?

How about we have BME only carriages so they aren't subject to racism, would that be acceptable? I think not.

I can understand why many women may not choose to use a women only carriage. Not so sure about the motivation of those who want to prevent them being a choice for others