To think we shouldn't have small plane 'airshows'

[JeffsanArsehole]

It seems every year in a small plane at an airshow there's some terrible and tragic accident. 7 people dead so far today.

It's not the same as large commercial craft where out of the thousands of planes every year one or two crashes.

I don't remember a year where one hasn't crashed.

MrsTerryPratchett you're right.

I know the pilot involved. One of our very best, imo massively more talented and capable than the majority of pilots - we are all in shock. It is not appropriate to speculate about what caused the crash.

I think they should be kept well away from populated areas. We get these little planes flying over our house. They come low and do stunts. Playing in their planes. But they mske me nervous. It's not like we could do anything - they are putting others' lives at risk...

I live about a mile from the crash and DD, DH & our best friend were travelling on the A27 less than 10 minutes before it happened, which is something I'm trying not to think about too much at the moment. MIL was at the show itself & ended up having to walk to Shoreham & get a friend to pick her up.

Tbh I would be sad to see the end of the airshow, but perhaps it's time to take a break & look at ways of reducing risk...how to do that I don't know, but there must be measures that could help without banning these displays altogether.

Totally agree with PPs re speculation being inappropriate right now.

I wouldn't speculate about the cause because I've absolutely no idea what happened. Hopefully the pilot will survive and have some memory of the event. I really feel sorry for him; i can't imagine how shocked and guilty he will feel when he learns of the outcome.

I would say that if chaps want to play at dambusters, they should do it over the sea and not in built-up areas. Surely that's common sense. Nothing wrong with this hobby but the rules need to be tightened and I think they probably will be.

Backinthebox, I'm so sorry and I hope with all my heart that such an apparently lovely chap pulls through and is able to fly again.

Thoughts are with him. Whatever it was that went wrong I have no doubt whatsoever that he did his utmost to try to avoid what happened.

The number of people who died has now gone up to 20 :( There's a very sombre mood in the area today and I think there will be for some time.

I think that's inaccurate, sorry. A police officer was quoted as saying it could rise, and when asked to give an estimate replied that it could be as high as 20 but he was not certain.

I don't think they have lifted the front section of the airframe yet, which is the point at which they expect possibly to find more casualties.

There appears to be some confusion due to various people being reported missing but obviously due to the nature of the incident it being quite difficult to confirm numbers as yet, or, sadly, identities.

It's all horrible, I hope that everything is resolved in that regard quickly.

This is one of the worst possible accidents that could happen at an airshow. An aeroplane going straight into a line of cars and exploding. I am so angry.

That's understandable. I think a lot of people are very angry, and want things to be changed as a result of this tragic event.

The fact that folk outside the perimeter of the show arena were hurt and killed is no better than the scenario in which spectators inside the arena are killed. Lives have still been lost in the cause of something which is not a practical necessity, and that has to be a very painful thing to try and come to terms with for all involved.

I am certain that changes will be made, long term and significant ones, and in the meantime there are changes being made as we speak to the air displays remaining this summer.

No one wants a repeat of this - no one at all. It's imperative that when displays take place no one should be at risk aside from those willingly flying the planes.

Sadly you can't always plan for an accident, because by their nature, accidents break the rules.

But everything possible will be done to minimise the risk.

I know this might not be a popular view - but I'm angry and upset, still waiting to hear if anyone I know was one of the people killed. This is a plane whose sole purpose was to kill. It was a weapon. People go to airshows to watch weapons being flown round doing dangerous maneuvers. They are generally being flown not by young people at the peak of their physical fitness, but by older men at a time of life when they are more prone to heart attacks and strokes. They fly over built up areas full of people who have little or no interest in watching.

I drive down that road a lot. I had friends driving down it that day. I've sat at those traffic lights. Whatever the cause there needs to be a serious rethink about the wisdom of allowing this kind of display to continue over populated areas.

Sorry that you are in this situation, Catsrus.

You make some valid points.

The planes themselves may not technically be weapons, they were never intended to be slammed into the ground/crowds of people/vehicles, but they were made to carry weapons, and as such are war machines and I hate them from that perspective too.

I also agree that people with no interest in aircraft ought not to be put at risk by having them display over their homes or streets.

I hope you get some peace of mind, somehow, before too long.

CAA statement

The thoughts of everyone at the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) remain with all of those affected by the tragic accident at the Shoreham Air Show on Saturday 22 August.
Following the accident we immediately began an urgent review and have, today, announced a series of immediate restrictions and changes to UK civil air displays.
• As a precaution, on Saturday 22 August we took steps to ensure no further flights were made by Hawker Hunter aircraft - this temporary restriction remains in place.
• Flying displays over land by vintage jet aircraft will be significantly restricted until further notice. They will be limited to flypasts, which means ‘high energy’ aerobatics will not be permitted.
• The CAA will conduct additional risk assessments on all forthcoming civil air displays to establish if additional measures should be introduced.
• We commenced a full review of civil air display safety yesterday and held an initial meeting this morning.
The safety standards that must be met by all major civil air displays in the UK are among the very highest in the world and are regularly reviewed. All air display arrangements, including the pilots and aircraft, must meet rigorous safety requirements. Individual display pilots are only granted approval following a thorough test of their abilities.
The CAA will continue to offer every assistance to the Air Accidents Investigation Branch as it seeks to establish the cause of the accident. The CAA will also act promptly in response to any emerging indications from the AAIB’s investigation.

Source: Guardian

I don't know if this helps at all. They are reviewing a lot of stuff.

Catsrus I'm thinking exactly what you are. We don't even know who has died yet. My xh was 2 miles down that road travelling in that direction. If we hadn't been away on holiday I may have been on that road on the way back from tesco ad I often am with ds on a Saturday afternoon. I dropped ds at football today and realised the 20 something lads who run it probably trained with those poor boys. I know it's selfish to feel more strongly when a disaster is close to home but the thought that people I know have probably lost people they care about, that I could have lost people I care about just because some adrenaline junkies wanted to show off their flying skills is sickening. I can't see the value at all.

Thanks Stephanie - to be clear it's not that I'm worried about anyone in particular, just that I've already heard that one of the dead was a friend of a neighbour - so it feels entirely possible that when the full list comes out I might know someone on it.

It really doesn't feel the same to me as a random accident - this was risky behaviour being done for the thrill of a crowd. That's what makes me angry. It wasn't just the pilot's own life, or that of the crowd, that was at risk. Evidently they have to do these things well away from the crowd who choose to be there!

I have close family who are thrill seekers, they want to do the fast car driving, mountain scaling stuff. Their choice. Their choice to go watch fast cars going round in endless circles, their choice to be at an event with risky things happening. My risk assessment for driving down the A27 at Lancing should not have to include a fighter plane failing to pull out of a dangerous maneuver.

My dad was a proper warbirds geek and published a lot of material before he died, indeed he lost an amazing friend in an incident similar to this in the U.S. (Many years ago)

His good friend wrote this article- I thought it was very interesting.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/11822440/Shoreham-air-crash-how-safe-are-British-air-shows.html

The man who wrote that article lives in Australia.

If he lived here in Adur he'd probably be as keen as the rest of us to "overreact".

I'm sorry limited I don't find it interesting - it's once again saying something along the lines of "it's really quite safe, the crowd were OK" .

The crowd chose to be there - they wanted to see this risky behaviour. If the plane had crashed and injured members of the crowd that would be horrific and tragic, but the people in the crowd knew the risks - just like spectators at a grad prix know the risks of being in a crowd alongside a race track. They make choices and assess their own risk.

The people driving home and to work along a busy road did not make that choice. All choice was removed from them.

Limited, I am sad to say that your dad's good friend, "a professional writer and journalist covering vintage aviation", who wrote that unbelievably self-serving article you linked to, is so deep into his own vintage aircraft shit that he is missing the wood for the trees:

Quoting: "One of the main principles is avoiding display aircraft overflying the crowd or doing risky manoeuvres in the direction the crowd. In the case of the Shoreham accident, though the aircraft tragically crashed on a road in use, this principle still made sure that the crash did not involve the main airshow audience."

Ah, so long as you do not kill any of the airshow audience (which in itself is likely to be proved wrong once the wreckage has been removed). It is perfectly fined to kill innocent motorists and motorcyclists going about their daily business.

With people like him in the industry, I hope they shut the whole damn thing down.

catsrus
As I said up thread, I was at the show in 2007 when the Hurricane crashed in nearly the same place.
I happen to enjoy air shows, and DH and DS absolutely love them.

But after 2007, it is unbelievable to me that they allowed the "display" area to still include the A27.
Utterly, utterly stupid.

There is absolutely no way on earth he should have been doing aerobatics other than over

• the sea (as they do at Bournemouth / Great Yarmouth)
• the runway (as they do at Fairford / Farnborough)
• arable fields (as they do at Duxford)

TalkinPeace, I cannot believe they did not change the rules at Shoreham after a similar incident in 2007. Words fail.

Totally agree with saucy and cats (we must all live very close to each other)

If the plane had crashed and injured members of the crowd...

...the number of fatalities would have been far, far higher.

Soupdragon, what is the point you are making?

What has that got to do with anything soup?