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Original poster

not to know if "brown sugar" is offensive.

342 replies

Charis1 · 20/08/2015 23:11

I am taking some gifts from work colleagues to a friend in hospital tomorrow. We had a collection, and one person bought the gifts from us all. We have some nice toiletries and things, but are in a toiletry bag with a picture of a teddy on it and the caption "brown sugar". I thought that term sometimes used in a racist context, so am reluctant to hand this over. but not sure if I am being paranoid and overly politically correct.

Please help!

OP posts:
Itsmine · 21/08/2015 15:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HoneyHoney10 · 21/08/2015 15:40

bumbleymummy No its not just you who thinks its a bit Hmm. Are we now not supposed to say "chocolate" in an office environment now? Surely that its getting ridiculous!! Just for fear of any people who may be offended, the only way my black co-worker would be offended in that situation is if i didn't get her a bar of chocolate too Smile.

For what its worth OP id be more offended by receiving a washbag with a teddy on it as an adult, than any connotations behind the branding.

Dawndonnaagain · 21/08/2015 15:46

honey it's been quite clearly stated and demonstrated that it's about context.

ALassUnparalleled · 21/08/2015 15:50

Well context is all. It's a bit of a jump from Dawn's example to saying , as I have said" I want chocolate and I want it now" .

If you can interpret that to mean "I am making a salacious and offensive comment about the sexual prowess of black men" as opposed to "I'm popping down to the vending machine" you might want to consider how offensive your interpretation is.

Garrick · 21/08/2015 15:53

Dawn, that man made it revoltingly clear he wasn't talking about chocolate, though, didn't he?

I'm not attached to this issue - I dislike mugs with personal statements on them, no matter what! But am Hmm about having to careful where you use the word 'chocolate'. FFS, this reasoning will make it offensive to mention chocolate muffins in public - or caramel, for that matter.

It reminds of those people who can't help making a leery joke when you ask them if they want turkey leg or breast. The offender is sometimes the person who imputes nefarious meanings to contextually appropriate words.

Lurkedforever1 · 21/08/2015 15:54

People are so touchy. I mean dd and I were riding around in our white sheets the other day brandishing our burning crosses, just a bit of harmless fun and some over sensitive types got funny about it. Pc gone mad. I even have a coloured ( blue and pink) friend who said it wasn't offensive. Next thing people will be calling my standing joke of throwing bananas at the neighbours racist.

On the op I think it's just meant to be the Bears name and nothing to do with racism. But I don't like the historical connotations of 'brown sugar' personally.

Ffs it's like I fell into 1930's Alabama with the golliwogs. I'm not personally offended by lots of historically awful or just rude things, doesn't mean I condone them. Although not getting the mug, wouldn't cross my mind to think the chocolate was referring to anything but food.

Dawndonnaagain · 21/08/2015 15:58

Garrick Obviously he wasn't, but as I said, it's all about context. Find me a school boy that doesn't giggle at Chocolate muffin. Nobody is saying don't talk about chocolate, but people are saying it's not unreasonable to be sensitive to it's use in some situations. That's all. I'm not defending or opposing I Love Chocolate Mugs, I'm just saying, there is a reason behind some people (understandably) getting pissed off with the use of the word chocolate when it's used to undermine and intimidate.

Dawndonnaagain · 21/08/2015 15:59

its use apologies.

SenecaFalls · 21/08/2015 16:01

Lurked I understand your point about 1930s Alabama, but just to clarify, golliwogs were popular mainly in Britain and other parts of Europe. I grew up in the US South in the 1950s and 60s, and I had never heard of them or seen them until I went to university in the UK.

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 21/08/2015 16:04

Find me a school boy that doesn't giggle at Chocolate muffin.

I've never heard of this being a thing and I'm not that old.

ghostyslovesheep · 21/08/2015 16:24

blimey a Golly debate - well it's been a while Hmm

I am surprised there is still someone left who doesn't understand the racist associations of golly 'toys' to be honest

We had a huge collection of Robinson's gollies in the 1970's - my mum realised how horrid they where and they where donated to a slavery museum in Liverpool where they have been used to illustrate racism in culture several times

WMittens · 21/08/2015 16:41

Fauchelevent

Also, saying "black person" is not offensive Milliii. Just say black person, it's the preferred and used term! Never "coloured"!!

It's interesting that you say 'Never "coloured"' as the most PC term in American usage I believe is 'people of colour' (used in the same way as BME is on this thread) - would that be considered offensive in the UK?

ALassUnparalleled · 21/08/2015 16:41

Find me a school boy that doesn't giggle at Chocolate muffin

Well he's no longer a school boy but my son for one? If he did giggle he kept it very well hidden. That's actually quite an assumption to make- that all boys are going to make a racist and sexist interpretation out of it.

For those of us who are older "Muffin the mule is not a sexual offence" might ring a bell. (Muffin the Mule was an ancient BBC children's programme)

spanky2 · 21/08/2015 16:44

Big Bang Theory anyone? Raj calls the head of HR brown sugar. Sheldon tells her. She looks shocked. He says 'it's okay Raj is brown too' and smiles. It's the Egg Salad equivalency episode. 'Women are the same as an egg salad on a warm Texas afternoon . Full of eggs and only appealing for a short time.'

OutToGetYou · 21/08/2015 16:46

No-one has actually said that saying you like chocolate is racist though, have they? Or that you can't say the word chocolate in the workplace.

As always with these types of debate people take hyperbolic stances and try to claim things no-one has said.

It is very clear that the word can refer to black people, or people of colour. And that sometimes, in some circumstances, it is sensible to think carefully about its use.

The original comment was that it might not be a good idea to sit drinking from an 'I love chocolate' mug in front of your black boss. I think that stands.

That is not to say you can't love chocolate, eat chocolate or drink out of that mug generally.

I might go and have some chocolate now in fact.

Itsmine · 21/08/2015 16:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dawndonnaagain · 21/08/2015 16:58

That's actually quite an assumption to make- that all boys are going to make a racist and sexist interpretation out of it.
Unintended, but having spent a considerable amount of time working in schools ime many schoolboys giggle at it, usually without comprehending the wider meaning.

YogaPants · 21/08/2015 17:07

I am going to throw some more sing lyrics into the mix to provide context for the use of the word chocolate.

www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/h/hair/black_boys.html#!

I hope we can agree that they are not appropriate to sing at work.

OutToGetYou · 21/08/2015 17:19

"Genuine question, why is 'people of colour' ok but 'coloured' isn't?"

Genuine response - why does that have to have an answer? Can't you just accept that it is the case and call people what they prefer?

Itsmine · 21/08/2015 17:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WMittens · 21/08/2015 17:30

OutToGetYou

Genuine response - why does that have to have an answer? Can't you just accept that it is the case and call people what they prefer?

Because the terms are slightly different phrasings of, in grammatical terms, the same meaning. Acceptability changes over time so, for those of us who would rather avoid accidentally causing offence, it is useful to know. Benedict Cumberbatch would undoubtedly have preferred to have said knowledge before that interview.

Personally I'm in favour of expanding my knowledge, as it helps to avoid mistakes like mentioned above.

DotForShort · 21/08/2015 17:35

Well, it's not offensive here in the US anymore than referring to a black guy as dark chocolate.

Absolute nonsense. It would not be acceptable to use these words in the US.

Genuine question, why is 'people of colour' ok but 'coloured' isn't?

Er, because they are different terms with different histories?

SenecaFalls · 21/08/2015 17:38

The "people of color" "colored people" distinction is historical. During the Civil Rights Movement, there was a conscious rejection of the words used that were seen as having a connotation with segregation and Jim Crow. "Colored" was one of those words (it was actually the polite and acceptable word used for black people at one time, hence the NAACP-National Association for the Advancement of Colored People). "Colored" always only applied to black people. Black became the choice of black leaders and later African American also began to be used. Both are used in the US now, btw.

"People of color" came into use later because prior to its use, the expression "non-white" was most common, and many people did not like it because it described what people were not and suggested that whiteness is the default. "People of color" is a broader characterization than black or African American and includes other races. (In the US, race and ethnicity are separate concepts.)

OutToGetYou · 21/08/2015 17:39

We don't really use 'people of colour' in the UK but it's not offensive.

'Coloured' became offensive about twenty years ago.

I doubt there is an actual reason but 'coloured' does make it sound a bit like lots of colours at once, doesn't it?

I find it astonishing that an adult man in the UK didn't know that 'coloured' was no longer used.

But I also still don't know why we have to ask why it is so, it's like we're expecting people to justify their own preferences to what other people call them. I am sure we can all agree that people do not have to justify that.

DotForShort · 21/08/2015 17:40

And it's always so lovely to see the proud owners of gollywogs show up on these threads to defend their racism. Some things never change. Sad