About this GP

[slightlyconfused85]

Now before I start I generally think Gps are amazing people, I'm not dissing the profession. Today, however, I booked an appointment to get the contraceptive pill after the birth of my 2nd child. I was given an appointment with a locum who explained my options to me, then said he didn't prescribe contraception for ethical reasons. I then had to wait 45 minutes for another gp to be able to fit me in to prescribe this for me. Aibu to think that if the gp surgery is going to have locums that won't do this then they could have let me know on the phone when I booked? I know the receptionist didn't know what I wanted but they could say if it's an appointment to discuss contraception then say and we will find a different GP. Had loads of time wasted today and feeling (probably irrationally) irritable about it!

Sorry but how can they not give you contraception for ethically reasons? Surely it is your body and you can do what you want with it? They are welcome to not use contraception themselves, but how can a public servant dicatate what a patient can and can't use. How is that even legal?

My planned medical termination went wrong so I was kept in overnight and transferred by ambulance on a Saturday. The issue was finding an anaesthestist who would consent to the op.

reads

ragestroke again

That shouldn't have happened, then Lavenderice - once it was an emergency there are no grounds for conscientious objection. However, anaesthetics run emergency rotas at the weekend so there may have been a delay while they got enough cover to safely operate.

once it was an emergency there are no grounds for conscientious objection

Tell that to Savita Halappanavar's widower.

Isn't that in NI, where the law is different?

Isn't that in NI, where the law is different?

Ireland, in fact.

But the ethnics of doctors should be reasonably universal, yes?

ethics

Since I think overly strict anti-abortion countries like Ireland need a strong slap into the 21st century, I'd be inclined to agree with you, pneumometer

Ten you said in one post doctors can give you their opinion if they want, but not refuse to prescribe the drugs (which is not the same as preventing you from having them BTW) but legally its the opposite! Doctors have no business impressing their personal, moral or religious beliefs on you, but they do have a right to hold those beliefs and act in accordance with them. This isn't about women's rights its about human rights and the current legislation is attempt to protect those human rights for all concerned (even doctors!) Wasn't this looked at recently? In 2013, and suggestions made by GMC that no doctor should be allowed to refuse to prescribe contraception? It doesn't appear that that suggestion was upheld have you looked into the reasons why? I haven't, but it might be worth looking into as you feel so passionately about this? (Apologies if you already have, I haven't RTFT since last night)

spanish It will be really, really awesome if you could read my posts properly before commenting, because you're making me repeat myself and my typing fingers are getting tired.

which is not the same as preventing you from having them
It's still an obstruction, which I disagree with because why should I be inconvenienced for even 2 minutes (although the OP waited 45 mins) or be put in danger (Lavenderice) because some idiot can't separate their personal life from their job which they are paid to carry out in full (she says again). The emergency statute may be in place to prevent this, but as we've seen, it doesn't always work that way in real life, and it's not always possible to argue legal rights and GMC rules while you're bleeding to death.

but legally its the opposite!
But I don't care! AGAIN I'm not talking about what's legal, I'm talking about what I feel is "right"

There's also a difference between giving their opinion (which I mentioned in reference to poppy wanting to give her advice "as a parent" or something to that effect) and "impressing" their beliefs. Personally, I don't actually care about my doctor's opinion unless it's based on medical fact (Eg "pill A has less side effects than pill B, so in my opinion you may prefer Pill B) or I ask "WWYD?", but I was trying to be, for want of a better word, generous.

This isn't about women's rights its about human rights
AGAIN, I will restate that I feel this is a women's rights issue because mostly the medications / treatments that are objected to on "ethical" grounds by doctors are medications / treatments that mostly impact women: contraception, abortion, etc.

have you looked into the reasons why?
Nope, because this issue hasn't affected me personally yet. I just really really think it sucks. I also don't care about the reasons why, because, IMO, there's no justification for it. It'll be a lot of nonsense about "human rights" and "religious freedom". Why do your personal views get to trump my rights as a patient?

Human rights are nonsense? Umm OK, yes I see now where you are coming from. Nevermind.

I think that no human being should be forced to end the life of another human being. Given that some people hold the view that life starts at conception, they should not be forced to take action to end that (debatable) life.

As a nurse (awaiting re-registration) I made it clear that I am not willing to be part of an elective abortive process. However, in any situation where the life of the woman is at risk (physically - I accept that some would say there is a grave danger mentally for a woman who carries an unwanted pregnancy), I would have absolutely no hesitation in participation in her treatment, including abortive processes. In medicine (in the uk) the life of the woman always takes precedence over the child unless the woman clearly says that she knows that her life is in danger but would rather die than risk the life of her baby.

I'm comfortable with my position. I would happily care for a woman either before or after such treatment. I would not judge her and I would presume that she had thought through the situation until she was (comfortably or reluctantly) satisfied that it was the best thing for her/her family. I would support a friend who had made such a decision. I will not be a part of that process, though, whether for social reasons or congenital conditions.

I wouldn't choose to work in a gynae ward, though, for that reason, although my local hospital commissions BPAS to do their elective terminations on Saturdays, so most aren't done on the gynae ward.

Since I think overly strict anti-abortion countries like Ireland need a strong slap into the 21st century

The vast majority of the country approve of changing the laws on abortion, don't make the simplistic mistake of stereotyping an entire country. I've never met (or heard of ) a dr in Ireland refusing contraception, and the vast majority will provide advice on seeking abortion elsewhere as well.
Don't use us as a whipping boy in your unrelated argument.

poppyred
You still haven't answered the question

I think we are all aware of examples where this has had horrific consequences.

Please enlighten us!

Having to wait around while a doctor faffs around their religious beliefs is ridiculous. If a patient is even 5 minutes late, they'll quite often be bollocked at best and possibly won't get seen (ftr I don't have any particular problem with that--I'm not naturally great at punctuality, but am assiduous with medical appts).
If the patient was to tell the surgery they're latelet alone by 45 minutesbecause they'd been sorting things out in line with their friend in the sky, they'd probably be removed from the surgery list.

Oh, and boo hoo for anyone who wants to practise medicine but whose personal beliefs (of whatever stripe) don't accord with how things are generally done in this country. There is no shortage of people wanting to become doctors who have the ability, interest and patient-orientatedness and who are willing to operate on secular lines (NB not necessarily atheists). Back in the day, I was interested in going into medicine but decided my odd brain wiring (very likely to be a degree of AS) probably wouldn't be fair to inflict on prospective patients. Am somewhat (and yes, perhaps ) that a condition I can't help kinda ruled me out, but it's fine for someone's freely chosen beliefs to impinge on patients at least as much.

I can't believe this actually happens, it's terrible!

I'm a Catholic and I don't think religion beliefs have any place in the work place at all.

Ethical grounds my arse. It is religious grounds no doubt. People should keep their religious beliefs to themselves and not subject other people to their medieval beliefs (this comes from somebody raised catholic and taught by nuns).

don't accord with how things are done is this country
Current legislation very much accords with how things are done in this country, religious freedom, free speech, freedom of thought etc.
45 mins of anyone's time is not a good argument for restricting those rights, even if you have no respect for them.
I hate maybe poppy just has better shit to do.

Let's just sack all the GPs who won't prescribe contraception or send people for terminations!

We all know how many trainees are queueing up to be GPs so we can afford to get rid of anyone whose conscience doesn't agree with ours what national recruitment crisis

Spanish: Human rights are nonsense? Oh ffs. Yes, in the context of infringing on other people's human rights, yes, they are.

Urethra: Don't use us as a whipping boy in your unrelated argument. Why TF is everyone so literal today? I don't mean every single fucking Irish person, do I? I mean the people who make the rules that women can't have abortions. And what do you mean by "elsewhere"? Another country? That's convenient patient care!

lougle Unless you're actually ending the life, you're not actively involved, IMO. I think the degree of distance involved in simply referring a patient should be enough to soothe a tortured soul. But that's just my opinion.

No, everstrong, just make them leave their personal beliefs at the door if they want to continue getting paid.

But why do their personal beliefs matter less than yours ten?

And please don't say "because my taxes pay their wages"

This can be done well - I've been in a similar situation, and the (young, male, foreign - just because other people have raised that as a thing) doctor quickly, and non-judgementally informed me that he would just get another doctor to deal with this - excused himself and came back very quickly with another doctor (I presume they swapped patients or something)

That's how it should have been handled.

Similarly when a male doctor had to have a look at my nethers, he explained, excused himself and brought back a chaperone (who introduced herself and checked I was OK with it too), before carrying on.

It can be done very well. If it's done very well, then no problem. Perhaps GPs need secret shoppers who can assess how impartial they are being?