About this GP

[slightlyconfused85]

Now before I start I generally think Gps are amazing people, I'm not dissing the profession. Today, however, I booked an appointment to get the contraceptive pill after the birth of my 2nd child. I was given an appointment with a locum who explained my options to me, then said he didn't prescribe contraception for ethical reasons. I then had to wait 45 minutes for another gp to be able to fit me in to prescribe this for me. Aibu to think that if the gp surgery is going to have locums that won't do this then they could have let me know on the phone when I booked? I know the receptionist didn't know what I wanted but they could say if it's an appointment to discuss contraception then say and we will find a different GP. Had loads of time wasted today and feeling (probably irrationally) irritable about it!

I am reading these and thinking WTF! have any of you reported them to the GMC? because you should! I get paid a fraction of the money of a GP and as a student nurse I was told you leave you personal opinions at the hospital gate, we are not judges, we are not even the police.

report every last one of them!

just realised this moved on quickly :)

but I agree with Sweetn, a GP/nurse should never make you feel bad, about our choice but they should always alk about the other side, let you know the choices, but you need to be aware that you will sensitive either way, on what you really want, I am massively pro choice as I have found everybody in my last 25 years plus of being in the NHS, but if I found myslef in the pregnancy boat? I never had a point in my life where I thought I would terminate...luckly, My personal choice was not tested, so I can live in a happy bubble.

Just noticed that Pico has recently touched upon basically the same issue, but:

She printed off the prescription and then went to get another GP to sign it off

What is the actual point in this? As a person intelligent enough to get into and through med school (or even out of the house in the morning without setting yourself on fire), you must see how utterly pointless it is to refuse to sign a form when you're doing the legwork to get the form signed anyway?

Do these people somehow think that their god is so stupid and illogical that them signing the form is a sin, but them hand delivering the form to someone else for them to sign and then bringing it back is not?

Ten, you're my hero.

missingmumxox report them for what?? Following the guidance and provisions set out by the GMC? They aren't doing anything reportable. This thread is a discussion on whether what is allowed is morally right.

Hehe, thanks bonbon!

Kudos to the awesome GPs on this thread who know how to act professionally. However re: contraception I would have said that "a couple of patients a day" out of 30 is still a pretty significant number.

Also agree that not signing the form but taking it to someone else to sign is a stupid justification of passing the buck. "I don't actually sign it, so I'm not involved." Yeah, ok.

A couple of patients a day is quite a lot in my opinion. Still a notable part of the job

I can kind of accept not wanting to aid and abet a termination and passing onto a colleague who will. But contraception? Seriously? Quite apart from the fact it's prescribed for other reasons such as dealing with heavy periods and acne.

As others have said it is interesting that these ethical concerns generally only affect women.

Has a GP ever said that for ethical reasons they won't refer a male heavy drinker to a liver specialist or a heavy smoker to a lung specialist?

Nope didn't think so.

You choose what to believe. You also choose your job. Personally I don't think there should be provision made in employment for people who say they can't do a particular thing because of their religion. And on the whole, the courts agree with me. There have been several cases of service providers being fined for not serving gay couples for example.

Not being fined, asked to pay compensation.

Has a GP ever said that for ethical reasons they won't refer a male heavy drinker to a liver specialist or a heavy smoker to a lung specialist?

Or more to the point, has a GP ever refused to refer a man for an NHS vasectomy?

I very much doubt ethical reasons would be accepted as justification in many other jobs. If I worked in a supermarket and refused to fill shelves or serve intensively farmed animal products I doubt I'd be employed long. Yet in the same supermarket it's ok for a pharmacist to refuse to do anything with contraception because of ethics.

Yes, I wonder about that as well.

Also, if couples that run B&Bs are allowed to turn away gay couples, how long before doctors can refuse to treat gay people as being gay is "against their ethics"?

Also, if couples that run B&Bs are allowed to turn away gay couples

They aren't. Every such case has been pretty much laughed out of court.

And the more related case of the marriage councillor who refused to see a gay couple was quite properly thrown out, too.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McFarlane_v_Relate_Avon_Ltd

The Christian Institute with their star barrister Paul Diamond haven't, so far as I know, won a single such case.

Oooh, excellent, excuse my ignorance!

Pneumometer - none of those things involve the (perceived) ending of a human life.

One should separate this debate from any notion of sexism.

When a male contraceptive pill arrives these doctors will also refuse to prescribe those.

I agree that the ethical dilemma for these doctors is about the ending of human life - some people believe life starts at the moment the sperm fertilises the egg so wouldn't prescribe those methods of contraception that prevent implantation of the egg. They might be happy to prescribe other methods that prevent ovulation so the egg never gets fertilised (this is what my GP friend tells me).

It is difficult to think of an equivalent situation outside of medicine. I can understand why some doctors don't want to be involved with ending a life (as they perceive it) when they spend and that's why the GMC opt outs exist.

Apologies for the random "when they spend" in the last sentence there...failure of editing.

JeffSub What things are you referring to?

PD Not the doctor's place to make that call. My body, my decision.

Absolutely and I totally support your right to make that choice. But I don't think it is right to force someone who doesn't believe that it is ethically right to have to participate in your decision. There are plenty of doctors who are willing to provide those services and as another poster said up thread it shouldn't be difficult to arrange someone else to deal with that aspect of your care.

If assisted dying becomes legal I wouldn't expect all doctors to be obligated to offer the procedure.

And I totally would expect them to. But that's because I have never believed that "life at any cost" is the way to go. It's often cruel and inhumane and is actually robbing people of their autonomous rights, regardless of if we're talking about preventing / terminating conception (rights of the woman, whose body it is) or assisted dying (rights of the patient, who should be able to end their life when they choose).

Why though? Why do the doctor's personal beliefs give them the right to say no to care which they are paid to provide? Why do their beliefs trump the patients?

Not been able to read most of the thread here - but recently my sis went to ask for a termination at our local surgery: the gp said "I am disappointed - surely you're old enough to know better!"

I told her to make a complaint but she wouldn't.

rabbit Oh, FFS.

Ten - vasectomies, liver surgery and whatever else Pneumo said.

Ten - you are quite wrong on one crucial aspect. It may be your body, but it is not your right to force someone else to do something that will enable you in your choice.

Hear me out.

Imagine you went to the doctor and said you wanted an operation to remove your nose and ears. It's your body but you cannot expect a doctor to just go along with it.

It is a doctor's job to help you with your health, and it would nice if everyone could agree with everyone else's choices and this particular contraceptive issue never came up. But life is not like that. People have differing opinions. This is not like a vegetarian working in a slaughter house and thus not doing any work; contraceptive and abortion issues make up a small minority of a GPs work and usually there are other GPs that can help you out.

This practice is only acceptable because the GP will send you to another doctor who can help you.

If ALL GPs did this it would be totally unacceptable to deny patient's any access to contraception.

I agree that the GP choice was bad and that this objection should be flagged. And also that practices where ALL the GPs object should be flagged as such so you don't register there if you will need contraception.

But saying that someone should not be a GP because they disagree with this one aspect of care is more than a little intolerant. Can you not find a middle ground?

And just to be clear - I am absolutely pro-choice, pro-contraception, I despise the abortion rules in the Republic of Ireland and all the anti-abortion nuts in the USA. It is absolutely the woman's right to choose and anyone who says otherwise is, imho, extremely unreasonable.