To not want to live near a crack and heroin addict?

[Flatsfromnowon]

Just that really; we moved into a block of six flats about two months ago.

One set of neighbours in the block have had a few arguments, smoke in the shared hallway, and have asked for money which I was a bit about. However...

This morning we were woken at 5.20 - one of them was being arrested and the other was being questioned by police and said that the one being arrested wanted to sell some of their property to buy heroin. The one not being arrested had self harmed and it was just all so horrible.

The police took both of them away. Then later on we were off out and the one whose property was being sold and had self harmed came back. I asked if they were okay and said that I has overheard them telling the police officers that the other one was addicted to crack and heroin and they confirmed this is the case.

I have a small child and just do not want to be in close proximity to them. I certainly do not want to use the shared garden (which their flat overlooks)). I feel such a snob but I am worried about needles, them falling asleep after a fix and causing a fire, all sorts of things really.

It is all young families here apart from this couple (who I think are late forties). I don't think the drug habit is new - they both look haggard and skinny. It is all so sad and tragic, I mean once they were young and probably just fell in with the wrong crowd but that doesn't make me want to stay living here.

We are shared owners so spoke to the housing association who weren't very helpful.

We also lives happily in another shared ownership place for 6 years and never encountered anything like this.

AIBU?

The drugs aren't the issue, the antisocial behaviour is.
The drugs are a major contributing factor though.
I've lived in a block with addicts. It can be fucking terrifying. My car got smashed up and I saw someone stabbed outside my window. They are not victims.
On the other hand my stepdad was a middle class smack addict. Held down a good job, but the amount of times he set fire to the sofa was ridiculous!
I don't belive any innocent family should have thier lives wrecked by people that choose to live like that.
It is a choice.
I honestly wouldn't give a shiny shit where an asbo family (addicts or not) ended up as long as they were far far away from me. Anyone that says they would happily raise their family next to that kind of crap is lying, or seriously deluded.

You have my full sympathy, as I used to live above a heroin user and dealer. Report everything to the police and the HA to build up a record.

Your opinion is based in part on the mental health stigma that is currently pervasive in our culture.
You won't find many addiction workers who subscribe to the disease model. The disease model puts the onus of responsibility on professionals to provide a cure. Addiction and mental health are not the same thing, and the decision to change and engage with treatment plans for recovery is a choice for someone with an addiction - albeit a very difficult one.

there's no effective treatment programme and the problem just gets worse.

There are many effective treatment programmes, including all those offered through the NHS, which do not subscribe to the disease model of addictions.

An addict is still a human. The way some of you talk about them it's as if they're an animal.

You'd do well to read this.
www.renegademothering.com/2014/02/07/we-dont-start-with-a-needle-in-our-arm/

I'm sorry you have moved into somewhere with neighbours who have problems but short of keeping your head down and scanning the garden for needles before you use it, I wouldn't be too focused on this. So long as you leave them to their problems, and don't make yourself a target for their ire I would leave alone. And perhaps have a discreet word with a neighbour who has lived there a while to see what strategy has worked in the past. Knowledge is power.

There are many effective treatment programmes, including all those offered through the NHS, which do not subscribe to the disease model of addictions.

Yes, they're working a treat aren't they?

Clem, Coffee, No one makes you 'run away to London' or 'hang around with older friends' . They are choices.

I know lulu, of course they are.
Nonetheless some people's lives would make ours look positively feather-bedded in comparison.
And as others have said, addicts are still human. Some of them have stories that would make you weep.

Lulu of course they're choices. The addicts I knew made some bad ones. But I too have made bad choices. We all have. The same way a woman can find herself in an abusive relationship for years, and people can say 'oh well just leave' - it's almost never that simple. Teenagers, for instance, aren't known for their brilliant risk analysis. What 15 year old, making new friends, thinks 'are these people who will help me stay on a healthy path for the future?'

And yes, sure, being an adult addicted to heroin isn't entirely as simple as having some dodgy friends as a teenager. But a series of small wrong choices can put you on a path there - and once you're there, it can be very hard to come back from. As opinions about drug addicts on this thread show.

I'm not saying 'oh poor them let's invite the local junkies over for tea and understanding'. But honestly, it's just really not as simple as 'they chose this, fuck em'.

Oh fgs. You wouldnt do either with the intention of becoming a drug addict would you? Sometimes shit just happens and by the time you've realised how deep you're in it its too late and a way back out isn't easy. I don't even know why I'm arguing this point. I just feel differently to thinking "well they make their own bed they can fucking lie in it"
People who end up in these situations are often young, vulnerable and screwed up. And I have sympathy for them. I've seen it happen myself several times to people I went to school with and grew up with and its fucking grim and sad.

Hmm. Addicts are as individual as the rest of society. Some are regular police customers, stealing and selling to get the next hit and bring a wealth of criminality to their surroundings. Others you would never notice. Do I feel sorry for any of them? Not really. We all make our choices. Would I be their neighbour? As long as I was able to enjoy the same peace I offer in return.

Nobody wants general anti social behaviour in their neighbourhood, drug or alcohol induced or otherwise.

OP, I don't think you have anymore to fear than you would if you had never found out. You can exercise caution as I imagine you would anyway, educate your child and contact the police/HA as you see fit. If the situation deteriorates, you are free to move but I would give it time.

I understand that coffee and I do have sympathy for them- really I do. I work with children some of whom have terrible homelives because of addictions in the family.

I just don't think addicts do enough to help themselves. We all face awful problems at points in our lives. Most people get on with it and don't make other people's lives a misery and behave in ways that impact on the lives of strangers who just happen to live near us so that they live in worry and fear.

Addiction can be battled and beaten if you really want to do it. It is easier day to day to feed your addiction rather than fight it. In feeding it you end up in a circle of buying, dealing, finding ways to get the money for the stuff, involving yourself with criminals, all kinds of risky behaviours. It all affects other people and costs society.

That is where I lose sympathy.

lulu have shared a flat with a needle junkie who never stole to fund his habit, nor did he inflict it on his flatmates (well apart from the time he ODed in the loo).
ONe of my lifetime best friends is addicted to heroin and would never steal or inflict it on anyone else.
So you know, cant paint them all with the same brush, tempting though it is.

Lulu I know why it affects society. I know it can be beaten. But some people I know who are addicts - one woman in particular - tries and tries and tries and does all the programmes, and fails and fails. It's a nasty addiction and they're usually sucked back into it by the people surrounding them, so it's fucking hard especially when they're the only people they have and it's all they know.

Did I feel sorry for the people in my block who obviously had issues but who were generally decent and not antisocial? Yes, I did. They had hard lives and not much hope. As long as they rubbed along with everyone in the block, absolutely no one had an issue and people were supportive (I personally helped one barely literate neighbour to fill out forms etc.)

Did I feel sorry for the minority who made everyone else's lives absolutely hellish by shitting/pissing/puking in hallways, knifing people outside in the street, banging on windows threatening others, etc etc? yes I did. I also bloody well loathed them. They needed seriously tough love and all they got was endless handwringing. That's no use to anyone. espevially not their kids

What was really heartbreaking was the kids in these families. Calling social services/the police because you can hear an eight year old begging his dad not to kill his mum through the walls and having them do absolutely bloody nothing made me furious. Utterly furious.

Antisocial behaviour is rife in the UK and it wrecks lives. There needs to be a combination of very early intervention, intensive support for problem families and (and I don't care if I get flamed) real fucking consequences. How can it be right to report time and again that a woman/child is getting the crap kicked out them by a dysfunctional father and there be no consequence? Why isn't the man dragged off and locked up? Why isn't the mum then given intensive support? It costs money, yes, but I bet in the long run it'd save a fortune. More importantly it'd save that kid from following in the same path...

Sorry, this thread has made me really angry. Lots of children out there being failed by the system :(

Yes, I am sure the people you refer to exist and won't be the only addicts who don't cause others huge issues or who try and fail to conquer their addiction. They will be in the minority.

Addiction costs the state billions in:
NHS care
Addiction services- detox, counselling etc - often privae and the NHS and charities buy the services
Benefits
Social services provision for families and addicts
Housing
Police
Criminal Justice
Environmental health
Emergency services

I have no idea why anyone excuses addicts. I understand why there might be sympathy for them but I don't understand excuses and enabling them to continue. Far more are a burden on society than are not and it naive of anyone to suggest otherwise.

We will have to agree to differ. Yes, I am lucky to not have any involvement personally with an addict and to that extent I am disinterested in them and their issues. However, I have faced awful issues in my life, as have many others, but have dealt with them and moved on- bereavement, bullying, serious health issues, poverty. They do not define me- they could but I don't let them. I prefer to be defined by what I have achieved in my life inspite of those things. People need to get a grip and take responsibility and stop thinking society owes them.

In my experience, models which are AA / NA / disease model based do not work: no-one can say, 'you have a disease, here's your medication, you will now be cured'; 'it's not your fault you have this disease - stay with us and we will fix you'. Additionally, whilst AA-type settings can be beneficial to some, for many they replace one dependency with another and prevent people from forming social circles away from their addiction.
Addiction is hugely complex, and hugely individual. Like PPs have said, it often begins as self-medicating against social situations or trauma - for which I have endless empathy - but does not manifest as a disease does. For others, it has been a series of poor choices. It is important that people are told that they can motivate change; they are not waiting on a magic cure. Ultimately, responsibility must lie with the person who has the addiction.

None of this helps the OP though, who I hope hasn't been left feeling torn by social conscience.

Substance abuse disorders are included in the diagnostic manual of mental disorders so they are absolutely considered as mental health disorders.

It's not 'excusing' addicts - it's acknowledging that it's a complex issue with multi-factorial causative factors and the initial use of a drug may have been 'a choice' but when we're talking about people who have - in the main come from deprived and abusive backgrounds their ability to make 'good choices' at that point was impaired on many levels.

In my years working with heroin addicts I can't think of many (if any) that came from happy backgrounds. Heroin is the best way to numb physical pain (that's why we use morphine in primary health care) and a great way to numb emotional pain. It takes all the pain away.

It stops being 'a choice' when you sell your body, rob people or lose your kids because of it. Do we really think people fancy those outcomes and 'choose that' or is it a result of addiction?. Which means it's something the person does not feel in control of.

And there are some high - powered heroin addicts who are functional and no-one would ever know but they are few and far between. Cocaine addicts however - I've known lawyers, Dr's and research scientists in psychopharmacology be addicted to coke but didn't consider themselves addicts because (in their opinion) it didn't affect their work and spending hundreds of pounds over a weekend every weekend that they could afford put them in a different league to those skanky junkies.

I never came from a happy background. I was homeless at 16, have I ever taken drugs? Nope.
Stop making excuses for them, it's a CHOICE
Drug users are NOTHING like gay or mental health what a ridiculous comparison.
Drug users ruin others lives.
I had my car smashed up by a drug user and I lost my no claims and pay a higher premium. Why should I have to go to work and pay for some scum who choose to take drugs?
I can't believe people feel sorry for them this is why they continue their disgusting habits.

Lulu agree 100%

ive known a few addicts through my addicted friend

a couple came from very wealthy families,think country estates,titled

it's not always the ones from deprived and chaotic backgrounds

Oh fgs. You wouldnt do either with the intention of becoming a drug addict would you? Sometimes shit just happens and by the time you've realised how deep you're in it its too late and a way back out isn't easy. I don't even know why I'm arguing this point. I just feel differently to thinking "well they make their own bed they can fucking lie in it

Do you honestly think there is a person in the western world who doesn't know what the risks of heroin are, the first time they make that choice to inject heroin? Do you really? Even as a small child I had ears and eyes and I heard the TV and other adult conversation and knew that the worst thing you could do to yourself EVER was to choose to start injecting heroin.

Having an addictive personality may well be a disease, but being addicted to any particular substance is not.

I have no sympathies for drug addicts/users

I sympathise with the ops situation.

But in the wider debate, have any of you ever tried getting rehab in the UK?! There's a waiting list of 2-3 years.

OP - IMO you did the right thing when you asked if they were OK and showed concern, as ( I would hope) any decent neighbour would. In your position, I wouldn't be at all worried about having them as neighbours unless their lifestyle impinges on you.