AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

[Spearshake]

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

I think he meant it literally. But, certainly, I could be in a convent. I'm not, though.

We don't need made-up and unchangeable rules of desert-dwellers from thousands of years ago attributed to an imaginary creator to keep order in society in the year 2015.

If satan's only got 9ft statue so far, we must be further away from the apocalypse than I feared. Phew!

I don't honestly understand why you find it so hard to understand your own belief in inherent good and bad in the context of us all being constantly socialised to believe such things, given the importance of adhering to such a framework in society (not to mention that others, our parents for example, have a vested interest in having us grow up believing in inherent right and wrong!).

with respect, I am not 'finding it hard to understand'. I understand the arguments for altruism as a social/evolutionary strategy, as I said. I agree with them, actually. I just can't help, despite understanding those arguments, still also feeling that torture is wrong in itself - not only socially undesirable. And, actually, I think many atheists hold such value-beliefs.

However, even if you do still believe in inherent right and wrong, inherent good and bad, I don't see why that requires you to sympathise that much with religious arguments about it. There is no logical connection between a belief that there exists an objective morality on the one hand and the belief that a deity might exist on the other, or indeed that such an objective morality would come from said deity.

No, believing in an objective morality is of exactly the same order of belief as believing in a deity. Both are beliefs about the world which are not grounded in or suspectible to proof.

I'm tossing my atheist card and joining whatever the religion is who has a white monkey god.

Dora you think Jesus literally meant for you to sell all your possessions and give your money to the poor, but haven't done it?

Are you not worried about being struck down dead for withholding money from God, like Ananias and Sapphira?

Some estimates put Christians at almost 3 billion and Muslims at about half that. I'd say for both religions of desert people, some obviously still do need them.

Dora not so much in this country though. I really think we're moving away from it now.

OP, I think YAB a bit U. You cannot dictate what other people say to your child. It sounds as though you have not discussed god(s) with your DC and are a bit shocked that your MIL has and at a thrown off balance wrt how to deal with it.

Take it as an opportunity to talk to your DS about religions, the BBC link above is really good. Tell him what you believe and get his dad to do the same. Then answer any questions that he has and make sure that he feels comfortable coming to you with any questions in the future. This is important as he will soon be learning about religion in school.

with respect, I am not 'finding it hard to understand'. I understand the arguments for altruism as a social/evolutionary strategy, as I said.

They're not what I said you were finding hard to understand.

No, believing in an objective morality is of exactly the same order of belief as believing in a deity. Both are beliefs about the world which are not grounded in or suspectible to proof.

I didn't say they were different 'orders of belief'. I said believing in one shouldn't make belief in the other any more likely or legitimate.

Seriously, it's like you're not even trying to read my posts.

This is important as he will soon be learning about religion in school.

Actually he's likely to be expected to participate in religious worship at school. That's not the same as learning about it.

Ihate, you'll have to be a long-dead native Honduran apparently. news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/03/150302-honduras-lost-city-monkey-god-maya-ancient-archaeology/

I never get why all these atheists who managed to form their own opinions about religion despite all kinds of indoctrination nevertheless don't seem to have any faith that their own children will be able to do the same.

Or are they just trying to ensure their children are indoctrinated with atheism perhaps.

You said this -

I don't honestly understand why you find it so hard to understand your own belief in inherent good and bad in the context of us all being constantly socialised to believe such things, given the importance of adhering to such a framework in society (not to mention that others, our parents for example, have a vested interest in having us grow up believing in inherent right and wrong!).

Surely you were saying I find it hard to understand why I should believe in right and wrong when this is explained by my socialisation? what were you saying?

I said believing in one shouldn't make belief in the other any more likely or legitimate.

No - of course it doesn't make belief in any other more likely or legitimate. That's not what I said at any point. My point is that since most of us hold beliefs, such as the belief in right and wrong, that are not rational, it's a bit unfair to pick on religious people for being irrational. Any normative (as opposed to descriptive) moral claim is susceptible to the same objections as those levied against belief in god, and yet it's only religious claims that receive scorn.

My DGM used to talk about things like this to me, never in an extreme way, never did me any harm, in fact the opposite, it helped to give me the faith I have today. Not in an overly religious way, just a quiet belief in God. I went to a school where religion was rammed down out throats, and they frightened us with it, the result, most of the friends I went to school with don't believe. Whenever I'm down or in a bad place I think of the things my DGM told me and it gives me strength. I really can't see how that can be a bad thing. There are far worse things to be told.

Both will happening Regina.

Actually, this thread reminds me of the 10yo and anal sex one a couple of weeks ago.

In reply to the op, we use "some people believe" a lot in our house. I welcome people's beliefs and find it fascinating without having to agree with them. That's how I hope our ds will approach the world and its people.

" never get why all these atheists who managed to form their own opinions about religion despite all kinds of indoctrination nevertheless don't seem to have any faith that their own children will be able to do the same."

Meaning what? Granny told me that if I put my hand in boiling water I'd be fine, means that I'll grow up always believing that I can put my hands in very hot water?

Yes, but plenty of people grow up being told a religion is a fact by a close loved one, and still manage to become atheists as adults. These people, I assume, believe that their capacity for reason has enabled them to form their own opinion despite being given conflicting information by family members. Why, then, is this not applicable to all children? (Unless, of course, the children in question are assumed to have less capacity for reason both now and then as adults than the atheists doing the head-banging.)

In fact, the evidence suggests that the offspring of very religious parents almost invariably end up more secular than their parents. This suggests that the influence of our largely secular culture is, in fact, stronger than any sectarian family influence as a general rule. Given that, I just don't understand why some atheists get so het up - unless in fact they really don't want their child to make up their own mind.

FWIW I post all this as a pretty secular agnostic. I just find the militancy of some anti-religion viewpoints a bit contradictory to the Enlightenment principles most claim to espouse.

You can't indoctrinate children with atheism, oftheHugemanatee. They already are atheist.

Yes, but plenty of people grow up being told a religion is a fact by a close loved one, and still manage to become atheists as adults.

Don't assume that they aren't exceptionally pissed off about it and don't want the same for their children.

I can see how following doctrine and sermons based on books approaching two thousand years old can be seen as primitive. I can also see how science can be seen as modern. There is just a bit of confusion common to atheist arguments about what is and what is not. The militancy and the contempt I'm not quite sure about. But, I put it down to the view that religion is viewed as being backwards.

Science is not the same as atheism.

You wouldn't be born an atheist, an agnostic, maybe.