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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

999 replies

Spearshake · 04/08/2015 13:29

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

OP posts:
DoraGora · 04/08/2015 17:05

talking of Satanists, I presume you've all seen the monument to Baphomet, unveiled in Detroit.

ReginaFelangi · 04/08/2015 17:05

I just can't get my head around an atheist copping out using heaven to explain death. Why can't you just explain what happened and that they're no longer alive? And that its okay to be sad about that. Flowers die. Animals die. It's not something that needs dressing up for children of any age.

Mehitabel6 · 04/08/2015 17:06

Just as interesting if you had an atheist talking about it. I can't see the problem in an interesting discussion. Young children are fascinated in the big questions - death for example, but often people are uncomfortable.
I wouldn't expect anyone to be telling small children about Satanic rituals - but if they did I would certainly discuss it and not ignore.

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 04/08/2015 17:08

talking of Satanists, I presume you've all seen the monument to Baphomet, unveiled in Detroit.

I had not, but that is very cool indeed.

DoraGora · 04/08/2015 17:09

In what reasonable context would people be telling small children about Satanic rituals?

DoraGora · 04/08/2015 17:12

You've heard about the Orange Country School Board and the Satanic colouring book. Of course the US has free speech, so there tends to be an assumption that anything which comes into your head is fair game...

Mehitabel6 · 04/08/2015 17:13

I have no idea, Dora, I merely answered the question.

DoraGora · 04/08/2015 17:17

In theory, I should be able to say to my daughter, about the statue, or the colouring book, now, some people believe...

In practice, I'm not at all sure I would do that. I'm not sure what I'd do.

fourtothedozen · 04/08/2015 17:17

Satan of course is an Abrahamic/Christian construct.
Every good religion needs a bogeyman to scare the kids with.

BertrandRussell · 04/08/2015 17:20

"In what reasonable context would people be telling small children about Satanic rituals?"

Satanists take their children to satanic rituals- it's not all drinking blood, you know!

My point is that atheists are just expected to put up with their children taking part in Christian worship, or being told that good people go to heaven- but Christians would object to their children being told as fact that there is no God, or that Satan was the Great Master, or whatever it is they call him. Christian privilege is so ingrained in this country that they just can't see the problem.

Mehitabel6 · 04/08/2015 17:23

I don't know where worship came into it. I thought OP MIL had been talking to the DC which had brought up questions. I can't see why you wouldn't use it for discussion in a straight forward way.

noblegiraffe · 04/08/2015 17:23

The Orange County School Board banned the satanic colouring books, so you don't need to worry about them.

Mehitabel6 · 04/08/2015 17:24

I would have thought that it was interesting to know, early on, that not everyone thinks the same- even in the extended family.

DoraGora · 04/08/2015 17:26

I must confess a great ignorance of Satanic ritual. But, isn't there something inherently harmful in idolising a thing which has been identified as the personification of evil, real or imagined. I wouldn't want my children playing Grand Theft Auto. That's imagined, too.

fourtothedozen · 04/08/2015 17:28

Dora- satan is part of your religion.

CoteDAzur · 04/08/2015 17:31

"I think that there are many atheists in the world (including me) who believe that it is better not to harm others than to harm others, for example, but are also unable to provide an a priori proof for why this should be the case."

You can't say why it's better not to harm people - really? Hmm I treat others as I want to be treated myself. People shouldn't go around harming each other, because if they do, we will all be harmed on a continuous basis.

It's not rocket science.

Ruledbycatsandkids6 · 04/08/2015 17:31

Think it's a fantastic opperrunity for your ds to learn that people believe different things and all are valid as long as they don't hurt anyone else's feelings or attempt to say that their beliefs are more valid than others.

We didn't get our kids baptised in any religion as we think it's stupid to assume kids will agree with us on any issue let alone religion.

As a cm I preface all such talks as 'some people belive'.... Kids love to question and discuss

DoraGora · 04/08/2015 17:32

I've no problem with him being identified with all that's bad. It's his being made into a 9ft statue and having people pose on that for selfies, that I've got a problem with.

CoteDAzur · 04/08/2015 17:33

"DoraGora - "If nothing's good and nothing's bad, everything's just maybe, then I can bring a truck around to your house and start filling it up with your belongings and you'd help me load it, presumably."

What are you on about? I said there is no such thing as good and evil, and that we can all be murderers or prostitutes under the right circumstances, and that is what you understood? Hmm

Garlick · 04/08/2015 17:35

I just want to thank Smillas and Skipton. I enjoy reading other people's succinct & rational replies to the Religion Thing.

As you've both already said better - altruism is an evolutionary advantage to a group. Humans as a species are pretty crap physically, therefore group solidarity's essential and probably explains why we have a 'conscious' sense of right & wrong. As Cote says, the definition of right/wrong changes with changing circumstance.

Because altruism is so important for our specie's survival, it's hardly surprising that doing kindness makes us feel good. So do other survival actions, like eating and having sex.

If some people choose to personify/deify/anthropomorphise an instinctual urge as god, then fair enough. But I do get very cross when such people insist morality cannot exist without god - as if we atheists are all rampaging around mugging kids for their lunch money, since we lack the "God says No" program!

BertrandRussell · 04/08/2015 17:36

"I've no problem with him being identified with all that's bad. It's his being made into a 9ft statue and having people pose on that for selfies, that I've got a problem with."

Really? But isn't it good for your children to be exposed to satanism? How will they know about it otherwise? Don't you trust your children?

CoteDAzur · 04/08/2015 17:36

"If it's OK to do whatever we like there will be chaos"

There are things called LAWS that limit what you can do. They are decided on by fellow humans and tend to change over time, as what we believe is OK to do changes (like women working or divorcing, gays marrying, etc).

We don't need made-up and unchangeable rules of desert-dwellers from thousands of years ago attributed to an imaginary creator to keep order in society in the year 2015.

noblegiraffe · 04/08/2015 17:37

If Dora is a Christian then surely we could go to her house and load up a lorry with all her possessions, because her religion dictates that giving away all your possessions to follow Jesus is good.

Or Dora, does your morality differ to that of Jesus?

Mehitabel6 · 04/08/2015 17:41

If they come across a 9 ft statue it is definitely something to discuss - why wouldn't you?

noeffingidea · 04/08/2015 17:41

No, you're not being unreasonable, OP.
I asked my mother (the only religious person in regular contact with my children) not to talk about religion to my children, and she respected my wishes. I didn't want them to be exposed to religious ideas until they were at school where they would (ideally) just learn about it as part of a lesson.
If someone had talked about 'God' or whatever to them I'd just have told them it was part of a story that some people believed in , which is kind of what they decided by themselves when they were studying RE at school.

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