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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

999 replies

Spearshake · 04/08/2015 13:29

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

OP posts:
Coffeemarkone · 04/08/2015 15:01

I would speak to her and tell that you will be responsible for your child's spiritual ed., thanks, as she was for hers.

Theycallmemellowjello · 04/08/2015 15:03

I guess I get why people are against 'filling kids heads with lies' but I'm just not sure it works like that. I went to Sunday school as a child, but I remember the stories told seeming to me about on the same level of real-ness as a fairy story or Florence Nightingale - neither true nor untrue, not true in the sense that something happened yesterday is true but also not a "lie" in the sense that I might have lied to get out of trouble. I don't think very young have a very strong sense of what is true or false. we don't preface fairy stories with the disclaimer "this is a lie" - so I don't think it's harmful to tell them religious stories. I also remember learning about Rama and Sita (I think) in reception - don't think my entire class became hardcore Hindus because of it, any more than we were converted by Jonah and the whale. Story-telling is an important part of learning IMO, and there's no need for frantic disclaimers. Also, in the instance described by the OP the child hadn't just uncritically swallowed the story - he asked whether it was true or not. Talking things through and encouraging critical thinking is the best basis for happy and intelligent adulthood, with or without religious belief.

fourtothedozen · 04/08/2015 15:04

How silly.

Of course it isn't a faith. Atheism is the lack of faith. It has no dogma, no rules, no church,

It's not up to me to disprove god. It's the religious that claim god exits.
How can I prove a negative.

If you can't prove that hippos don't live under my bed is is safe to assume they do, even if I don't have any evidence of their existence?

luckiestgirlintheworld · 04/08/2015 15:05

"The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions."

Ouch. I am a firm atheist but that does not mean you can't be open about the discussions around religion. They're really interesting.

As long as MIL is just saying what she believes as a Christian then I can't see the problem. You can just say that's what she believes because she's a Christian, and it's not what I believe because I'm not.

Baddz · 04/08/2015 15:07

RE is an academic subject.
Treat it as such.
I would say some people believe in a being called God. You could run through some of the commandments, explain not everyone believes. You could talk about Sikhism, Hinduism, Islam. Loads of stuff on Google.

Baddz · 04/08/2015 15:08

Religion is a fascinating topic...read up on some of Renaissance popes...very interesting! :)

BertrandRussell · 04/08/2015 15:08

"Church, at the moment, is a fine social organisation, "

Eh?

DoraGora · 04/08/2015 15:11

I suppose that depends on your definition of a faith. Atheism takes on faith that there is no God. If that's not enough of a discipline for your definition, then fine. You can call it a belief. My dictionary calls faith, the noun, an earnest belief.

BertrandRussell · 04/08/2015 15:14

"It is indeed a faith. It's the belief that there is no God. The existence of God can neither be proved nor disproved. It isn't something that can be observed."

It's not a "faith". There is no empirical evidence for the existence of God. So until such time as empirical evidence emerges, there is no God. Unless you decide to take a leap of faith and believe in the face of the evidence. Which you are, of course, perfectly at liberty to do. But you are not at liberty to say that atheism involves faith.

DoraGora · 04/08/2015 15:16

There is equally little for the non existence of God, too.

fourtothedozen · 04/08/2015 15:17

Semantics.

I believe it will get dark tonight. That belief is very different to a religious faith.
Religious faith relies on a belief despite no emiprical evidence- very different to my "belief" that there will be a sunset tonight- plenty evidence to support that.

And this is also what my dictionary says about faith
strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

You have no proof of god.

lotrben17 · 04/08/2015 15:19

and you have no proof that there isn't one. I fear we may have to agree to disagree on this one. Belief, strong belief. It's still not testable by scientific method.

BertrandRussell · 04/08/2015 15:19

"There is equally little for the non existence of God, too."

Sorry- that makes no sense at all.

fourtothedozen · 04/08/2015 15:20

There is equally little for the non existence of God, too.

It's not up to me to prove the non- existence of something- it's your claim not mine- like my hippos under the bed.
Can you prove to me that they are not there? No.
So we must assume they are because you cannot disprove it?

Laughable logic.

DoraGora · 04/08/2015 15:21

We already know that belief in god requires faith. But, there are some arrogant atheists who believe that they require none. In fact they have more than one faith, one is that there is no God and the other one is that they're right. That's also a belief.

fourtothedozen · 04/08/2015 15:22

Jesus on a stick.

DoraGora · 04/08/2015 15:23

It is if you claim that it doesn't exist.

fourtothedozen · 04/08/2015 15:24

dora, so if your 3 year old comes in and says he found a fire breathing dragon in the garden you would assume that is true because you have no evidence to the contrary.
You must live in a crazy world.

BertrandRussell · 04/08/2015 15:25

"Belief, strong belief. It's still not testable by scientific method."

Using the scientific method would bring you unerringly to the theory that there is no God. Belief in his existence requires a leap of faith. Atheists are content to accept the no god theory unless and until more evidence emerges to test the theory again.

fourtothedozen · 04/08/2015 15:25

It is if you claim that it doesn't exist.

I am chuckling now.
He's not my god- he's yours. I am not the one making claims about his existence.

lotrben17 · 04/08/2015 15:27

are you laughing? that's nice. told off another stupid person who had hope in a better world - good for you. I'm off to look for hippos under the bed, unicorns and a world where people are nice to each other.

DoraGora · 04/08/2015 15:27

Then you believe in your theory, which is what happens with all theories until they are disproven.

The statement that there is no God is simply one of belief; belief in the non existence of God.

Garlick · 04/08/2015 15:27

Spears, the link you posted is lovely! Thank you :)

I'm a full-on atheist, but don't have much of a problem with people talking from a believing point of view until unless they start using as an excuse to put other folks down, preach hatred of certain sectors, and so forth.

Some of my grandparents, aunts and uncles were intensely christian. My parents balanced this quite neatly by treating our faith-based questions as general questions about religions. So, in an instance like yours, they'd have talked about how different religions have different afterlife theories: heaven's just one of them; Ancient Greeks had Hades (eternal boredom) and Hindus have reincarnation. We always knew that any religion was an option for us, that our family chose not to follow one, and that we could change our minds.

As it turns out, we're a mix of atheist, agnostic, one pagan and one sibling's vaguely christian.

BBC quick guide to afterlives :)

DoraGora · 04/08/2015 15:29

I'm not making claims about his existence, either. I'm saying it's a belief. I'm quite happy to admit that.

fourtothedozen · 04/08/2015 15:33

belief in the non existence of God.

There are hundreds of "gods" in the world- Baal, Kali, White monkey god, Krishna, Ganesh- do you believe in them all?