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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

999 replies

Spearshake · 04/08/2015 13:29

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

OP posts:
StitchingMoss · 05/08/2015 19:09

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

StitchingMoss · 05/08/2015 19:11

Oops, x posted - the thread had moved on while I was reading!

Anyway, if it's worth saying it's worth saying twice!

StitchingMoss · 05/08/2015 19:13

drudge, that's a really interesting point. In the same way I would find it hard if the DC found religion, I would find it equally hard if they married a deeply religious person who, for example, wanted to bring grandchildren up as creationists.

You couldn't contradict I suppose - but if they told me about it, I might say, "that's an interesting point of view". Would that be acceptable?! Grin

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 19:15

Lemon Creme-I can check under the bed-therefore can prove there is no monster there-unfortunately I am not privy to the secrets of the Universe

The monsters are invisible, though.

But what you're saying is that you'd look for evidence of monsters, not find any and conclude (until further evidence emerges) that they don't exist.

Bingo. That's precisely what we atheists do with god. And we're right to.

I did say the big bang (or something like it) was true and added that the Bible story explained it in a way people understood at the time.
Out of interest what would I have been expected to say if his parents were creationists? Therefore more tricky. No-one on here likes grannies contradicting parents!

I would tell any child the truth, no matter what nonsense their parents believed. Yes, I would say..."Daddy is mistaken, Johnny...the world is not 6,000 years old and snakes have never been able to talk". But then I have no time whatsoever for creationists and wouldn't indulge them by lying to their kids.

With regard to your own grandson, you said the right thing IMO. Yes, the BB is true but the people who wrote the Bible didn't know anything about it at the time so just wrote down what they thought was true. Which is basically true, I think.

drudgetrudy · 05/08/2015 19:23

"I would tell any child the truth no matter what nonsense the parents believed"-a quick route to NC with some parents-particularly for a MIL.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 19:23

You bring up children according to your own ideas - therefore if you are a Christian they are likely to be christened - if you are a vegetarian they are not likely to be offered meat etc etc. I don't have a problem with that - I have the problem with not wanting to know about the way other people live or assuming that because they were christened they will be confirmed or because they were not given meat they will always keep off meat.
The more questions they ask the better - and you are the best person to encourage it

And what if you are a Christian Scientist bringing up your child in the belief that all medicine is wrong and refusing them a doctor?

Or what if you believe (from the Bible) that witches should be murdered, and your child is one?

Children asking questions is wonderful. It stops being wonderful when they are lied to in return.

Not all Christians/Muslims et al do this, to be clear...but if you are telling your child that your beliefs have a factual basis, then you (plural, not personal) are lying to them.

That is the point.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 19:25

The people in the Old Testament lived thousands of years ago and described their beliefs at the time. I am amazed that some people expect them to have 21st century thinking. New Testament is not so old but still going back over 2000 years. Our thinking will seem similarly stupid in 2000/3000 years time but we can't possibly know what they will think then - if there are still people on Earth.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 19:28

I would tell any child the truth no matter what nonsense the parents believed"-a quick route to NC with some parents-particularly for a MIL

Yes. True. And no doubt the parents will feel justified in taking that action because society keeps telling them their beliefs deserve to be respected, no matter how ridiculous.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 19:30

The people in the Old Testament lived thousands of years ago and described their beliefs at the time. I am amazed that some people expect them to have 21st century thinking

But it was "inspired" by an omniscient God. Did he not have 21st Century thinking back then?

If it's people and only people, then why make it holy?

I don't expect primitive people to have scientific knowledge. But I do think the creator of the universe should have a smattering.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 19:31

It doesn't matter what crack pot ideas people have- it is understandable that is how they bring up their children- all the more reason for them not to be isolated and not to meet alternatives and ask questions.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 19:36

If there is a God they would talk in a way people understand. There would be a massive communication problem if anyone tried to communicate with us in year 4015 thinking- they would be mad to try.
It is all down to interpretation or do you literally think that God shouted down to Moses who was able to knock letters out of stone as it was spoken? Hmm

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 19:39

Isn't it funny how divinely inspired primitive thinking is so similar to non-divinely inspired primitive thinking?

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 19:44

I am just astounded that people managed to write all those years ago and then people complain that they had funny ideas! Even odder that somehow this is Gods fault - they should have made sure they had a message for people in 21st century that matched 21st century thinking - in a country they didn't know existed.

BigDorrit · 05/08/2015 19:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AlanPacino · 05/08/2015 19:55

From my experience op your best bet is to take a very loving line. Start off by iterating how much you all love and value her, and that you know how precious her faith is to her, but because you have no faith you want you child to understand that there are lots of faiths that people find precious and as such it would be best if she presents her faith in a way that makes it clear that it's not exclusive and that other people have a different or no faith.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 19:58

To be fair to them, though, the big destruction, famine, pestilence, flood and so forth had to be done by God. Because they hadn't discovered Zyklon B tablets or the atomic bomb, and weren't in any position to rival that kind of destruction themselves.

AlanPacino · 05/08/2015 19:59

A god that was powerful enough to create nebulas with his mere words had to rely on evil humans to transmit a message of life or death importance. One that no two adherents agree on.

AlanPacino · 05/08/2015 20:01

So what about the disasters that are still caused by pestilence and climate and tsunamis now?

tarashill · 05/08/2015 20:01

Who positioned them? How do you know they were "positioned" at all?
I don't know what you mean by that. How do I know they were positioned at all? well it's fact that we're weren't always there. That isn't in dispute. Apparently we came from a Big Bang, and we came about after that.That is what is meant by the positioning of the planets. I'm sure if it baffles scientists (who deal in facts) it is not for us to think we know better.
As far as the rest of the universe, what makes us think earth is the only inhabited planet anyway.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 20:11

If there is a God they would talk in a way people understand. There would be a massive communication problem if anyone tried to communicate with us in year 4015 thinking- they would be mad to try

Nope. Sorry. If God spoke to them at all, then he lied to them. He didn't just explain things in a way they could understand. Genesis does not contain even a passing similarity to anything science has discovered.

And not a lot of human evolution has taken place in 5000 years...they had the same level of intelligence as us, they just lacked knowledge.

And yes.... Isn't it funny how divinely inspired primitive thinking is so similar to non-divinely inspired primitive thinking? this is exactly right from NobleGiraffe.

What exactly it is about the Bible and the "info" it contains that makes you think it's holy? What wouldn't it say if it wasn't? Serious question.

It is all down to interpretation or do you literally think that God shouted down to Moses who was able to knock letters out of stone as it was spoken

Moses did not exist.

And why do you find the idea of God shouting down ridiculous but psychically inspiring people not?

Ah, all down to "interpretation", eh? That old chestnut. In other words, "I can make it say whatever I want it to say, even though it clearly says nothing of the kind". We can all do that with any book we choose.

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 20:12

Funny how God speaking to primitive people in a way that they would understand involved telling them to bury their poo so that he wouldn't tread in it while he was walking around their camps.

Sounds like the word of man who doesn't want poo on his sandals to me.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 20:19

I don't know what you mean by that. How do I know they were positioned at all? well it's fact that we're weren't always there. That isn't in dispute. Apparently we came from a Big Bang, and we came about after that.That is what is meant by the positioning of the planets. I'm sure if it baffles scientists (who deal in facts) it is not for us to think we know better

Erm, the planets evolved. No, they weren't always there...they began as dust particles that gradually clumped together.

If you say something was "positioned" you are saying that some agency was responsible for placing it there specifically. And given your "tailor made" POV that is indeed what you think.

Who or what "positioned" the planets?

The universe in it's current state began with the BB. All evidence demonstrates this. Not sure why you need to use the word "apparently". Our planet began life around 8 billion years later. No, scientists aren't that baffled by these fairly basic things although there's still much to learn.

As far as the rest of the universe, what makes us think earth is the only inhabited planet anyway

Who said it was? We have no evidence either way, so we might be...although that would seem incredibly unlikely given the vastness of the universe.

AlanPacino · 05/08/2015 20:20

They just lacked the knowledge

Every professor of physics alive today has gone from shitting their nappy to understanding string theory within 25 years. They weren't born with that knowledge because of evolution. They were taught by other humans, they stand on the shoulders of giants.

Twunk · 05/08/2015 20:28

Have read just about all this thread with interest.

I live in the Netherlands and there are faith schools and secular schools. My children attend a secular school. They have not heard of a Christian god or Jesus, and have no concept of religion. It's not come up. If they ask questions I will answer and I certainly expect them to learn about religions in terms of history/politics/human interaction. This hasn't especially been intentional but as we are both atheist parents it simply doesn't feature on our radar.

And it's great Smile

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 20:30

Somebody's going to pop up in a minute and explain what caused the big bang, right?