To not get why she can't stand on her own two feet?

[EvaU]

Hey, this is about my SiL and how she quite clearly is taking advantage of me, Dh, and the family and I just want other's opinions as I might be overreacting. Let me just say from the off that I do like my SiL but in small doses, don't get me wrong she's a nice person I guess and she loves mine dh's three children to bits but she's a nightmare too.

She is a single parent to three children after a string of failed relationships over the years. Her kids are 11, 10 and 8, she doesn't work but is currently training to be a teaching assistant at college. She relies on benefits as her main income and gets around £900 a month in CSA from her children's fathers (they all have different dads). Now I'm not benefit bashing before anyone starts, I'm simply telling you how things are with her.

As she's been single for years she has come to rely heavily on my MiL, FiL and my other SiL for help with her kids and she regularly (I'm talking every week) asks to borrow money. She has now started to ask me and dh to lend her money and quite frankly I'm gettin sick of it.

She is not organised in the slightest when it comes to her life ie money, paying bills on time, meeting up at a pre are fed time, she's always late or doesn't show when we've made plans and the last few times my kids have stayed over at hers (they for stay often) they've come home saying they're starving and that there was no food in the house. As well as the asking to borrow money she is also asking for us to drive her places, and this too is becoming rather a regular occutance and just because me and dh have a car each (we have no choice not to as we both work) she thinks it's automatically a given that we'll chauffeur her about and it's not on IMO.

She is frequently asking for me and dh to lend her £20 here and there because she "forgot" a certain bill hadn't gone out and she'd spent all her money. She has text the other day asking can I lend her money for the bus fair to college but I know she has a monthly bus pass! Then she's making plans to come up to ours to have a BBQ and a few drinks or come round for a family gathering ie birthdays and she cancels saying she can't afford the taxi fare there and back, well I'm growing a little sick of it.

She thinks the whole world revolves around her and whilst usually I'll do anything to help anyone I'm sick of bailing her out. She says she has no money but then spends money on wine and having her hair done, manicures etc but her cuboards are always empty. How do you think I should deal with this as if she carried on asking for "favours" in this entitled and expectant sort of mannor then I'm going to snap.

only on MN could 'competitively non judgemental' be used as an insult

But only on Mumsnet could you find people defending someone who had persistently failed to prioritise the wellbeing of her DCs despite no apparent money problems, apart from the money she has being insufficient to pay for her luxuries and basics for the DCs.

OP I'm sure there are many bleeding hearts winging their phone numbers as I type telling you to pass it on to your SIL so they can help

If you want it to stop (been there with just th name type of person) each time she asks for money say no sorry you're skint. If she asks for a lift tell her no sorry have barely any fuel and are skint. Then start asking her for loans.

They stop asking quite quickly.

Deep down I think you really, really don't like her because she has three kids by different men and "takes home" more in benefits etc that you and DH do and that she spends money on other things you think are probaby wasteful (wine, hair etc) and that actually you both might well be struggling financially more (quite understandably) in reality than she is. I'd probably be p*ssed off too. So, YANBU but I think you're cross to about other things.

Is she in debt? If so I would highly recommend a Debt Charity called CAP, they are super helpful.

That's not how it is at all, i don't care that the kids have different fathers (why would I?) and I don't care that she gets benefits, that's her choice and as we and dh work we don't need them sonthere's certainly nothing to be envious of. My problem with her is what I wrote in my initial post, that she's prioritising her money all wrong and then expecting me to bail her out and that as a person she's so disorganised and frequently lets s and the family down when we've made plans!

I have a sister like this. I did help for many years but noticed her hair regularly highlighted, nails done in salon, spray tans, eyebrows waxed etc. I can't afford to do that for myself let alone funding her lifestyle. how do your DH feel? would he not text just saying enough is enough and she needs to prioritise? I love going out and get very bored stuck indoors but if I go out then I'm screwed for bills and groceries. The grim reality of not having a spare penny she'll have to give up her nights out.

" i don't care that the kids have different fathers (why would I?) and I don't care that she gets benefits "

yes you do, you have mentioned it several times now.
Look, just email her a budgeting tool from the internet and practice saying NO in the mirror.
As for the other stuff, I think you should have a long hard think about why exactly she pisses you off so much.

Oh for goodness sake why on earth does her choosing to have children with three different men affect my life? And as for her being on benefits, the only way this affects me or "pisses me off" is because she chooses to spend the money she is given on herself when her kids need things first, and then asks me to subsidise her, now that's what truly pisses me off.

" Oh for goodness sake why on earth does her choosing to have children with three different men affect my life? "

I have no idea, you tell me.

OP, another here who's not sure why you're getting such a hard time. My sister is similar with money to your SIL and is laughably bad with money (can't afford to get to work at the start of the week, gets paid so goes out and buys new garden furniture on the Friday - countless examples!)
Your SIL is used to being bailed out, and therefore doesn't sort out the problem. People need to stop as, you're right, she does need to stand on her own two feet. While you can't influence her parents, please don't lend her any more cash or pander to it any more. It will make matters worse
Good luck!

Ps the reason my mum still lends her cash, despite my sisters income being considerably larger, is because she says 'I just cannot get into a conversation with her about it as its that bad I will lose my rag immediately' so instead she does the ostrich approach. (My sister is also incredibly defensive and aggressive about her spending.)

Coffee - the only reason the OP needs to keep mentioning the 3 fathers is because of all you saintly non judgey types who keep asserting that this is why she is anti her SIL .
To the OP , stick to your guns , say no , keep saying no . You do not need to explain or qualify or give excuses . Her children are her responsibility not yours so don't let her guilt trip you into giving in . Good advice from other posters to suggest CAB or an app for budgeting advice .

EvaU - Just to say that I'm a LP and I have a good income with TC, wages etc but I'm also shit with money. I spend all month thinking about things to buy when I get paid and then forget about the phone bill or Council Tax.

Maybe kindly suggest that she does a budget plan. All that you have to do is to say that you and DH have to keep to quite a strict budget and although you had the £xx to lend her this time, but this has to be the last time.

If she says that she can't afford food, invite her round for dinner instead of lending her money.

ALSO - if you're in work and getting WTC, you cannot get free school meals. I know this because I cannot get them now that I get WTC.

Sorry, just seen that she is studying at college, not working at college - please ignore my comments about free school meals.

given the development about the request for DDs spending money after her having an expensive night out, she obviously has no sense of budgeting/living within your means/having realistic expectations regarding lifes luxuries. There are lots of people financially irresponsible like this and they are annoying.

If she promised her DD the day out and some spends, she ought to have set that money aside BEFORE treating herself. Not saying she should get no treats at all, just that they are a luxury and need to be decided on sensibly when all the NECESSARY family expenses are paid. I would not begrudge helping out a SIL/friend who did their absolute best for their kids and could barely afford a treat for themselves ever. That is not what OP SIL appears to be like though.

As for the immediate situation about the DD spending money, I would feel bad for her. Is it her birthday any time soon? could you turn up with the money as her present from you? that way she does not suffer, SIL does not owe you the money. And hoepfully it teaches the SIL something. The DC are old enough to learn that you cant always have what you want, when you have to prioritise paying for what you need - this mentality leads people to debt on credit card and buying new stuff with massive interest/credit agreements rather than making do with second hand stuff. We are relatively well off compared to many. Family income in excess of £60K before tax. But we still treat 'treats' as just that, for us and for the DC. We are not afriad of telling them no, and as a result they understand the value of saving up for things etc etc. OPs SIL is setting her DC a bad example, They are going to think they can have the lifestyle they want and expect everyone else to always bail them out.

I agree that the DD shouldn't suffer due to the mother's fecklessness but a point needs to be made with the SIL and money at some point and soon.

Giving the DD money in lieu of a birthday present is a good idea.

Facebook is the mothers downfall in this situation. DP has a workmate who is similar – he wanted DP to give him a lift to work (nearly an hour out of his way) ‘as he had no money’ to pay a £3 train fare, but DP refused because in the previous week the workmate had posted on facebook about having a new iphone 6, an expensive 3 course meal out at a very naice restaurant and a forthcoming 5 star AI holiday. You simply could not make it up.

I sympathise, OP, because my SIL is exactly the same.

She seems to think that the world owes her a living and that everyone else should subsidise her, her dh and her kids.

She manages to make everything about her. FIL would sell his own granny to keep SIL happy and to stop her kicking off.

I refuse to lend her money these days or do anything for her as it's never appreciated and if you do something for her she just wants more and more.

I'm curious to know how quickly after she is paid she repays the loans and if she repays them in full?

She sounds a nightmare OP. Say no and stop enabling her, she needs to start taking responsibility for her own life.

and we all know fine well that if the SIL herself posted on here saying "my mean SIL doesn't want to lend me any more money even though I'm always asking for it and getting her to do free child care" the very people who are giving the OP stick would be falling over themselves to have a go at her.

Op I think you've articulated your feelings very well. Furthermore I think they are justified and this situation would annoy me too - some people think the world owes them a favour and i don't think it's your job to bail her out given that you need to put your own family first. Just out of curiosity, does her 'borrowing' money mean that she pays it back? Or do you in fact 'give' her money? I would simply say no when she asks and explain that it's because she is always asking you and it's a big assumption to male that you're able to keep doing it. I do think it's worth telling your dh about your concerns. Perhaps he can be encouraged to broach the subject about why she appears to be struggling so much financially. If there is a problem then of course she must be given the opportunity to respond and perhaps people will be more sympathetic. But otherwise just say no, repeatedly, to 'lending' money and she'll eventually get the message. She is not being encouraged to take responsibility for her situation while everyone is giving her handouts.

I never find saying no at all hard and never understand people who do.

Op, You are getting a nasty hard time here.

It seems to me very simple.

Sill has plenty of money to last her the month, but she can't/won't budget.
Op has a similar amount but because she is sensible with money and it doesn't leave her pocket the second it arrives, she is expected to bail sil out, everytime she is irresponsible.

It's not on op. Yanbu. But you need to stop facilitating this. You just need to say no and point out that any spare money you have is because of careful budgeting and is not because you are "minted".

Just don't lend her money. It's actually irrelevant whether you like her or not - my advice would be the same either way.